[ruby-core:73540] Re: [Ruby trunk - Misc #12004] Code of Conduct

Just in case - Linus and co made right decision -
http://jimlynch.com/linux-articles/did-linus-protect-the-linux-foundation-f=
rom-the-social-justice-warriors/

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Andrew Kirilenko <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> >This is a deflection. The problem that some of us are calling out is tha=
t
> *you may not see the problems* because you are not attuned to them. I
> rarely see the problems because I=E2=80=99m not attuned to them naturally=
 (this is
> something I have to work at because I reflect the majority in many
> different ways).
>
> So go and show us examples of someone being treated differently due to
> his/her/it sexual, religious or any other views/habits/believes by Ruby
> community. While you are at it, I'd like to remind you about Elia still
> being harassed by this fine group due to his believes. Problem with this
> code of conduct is that it'll reduce freedoms and rights of people not
> sharing your version of reality.
>
> >See, this is part of the problem. Yes, there are women who code. But
> there are subtle disincentives to contribution for a lot of women, and
> comparisons like this (=E2=80=9CI haven=E2=80=99t seen anything useful, s=
o nothing she=E2=80=99s
> done must be useful=E2=80=9D) are one such disincentive.
>
> And this is words juggling. Yes, there are women who code, no one is
> arguing with this. Some of them are good at it, some of them are bad - ju=
st
> like men. I was talking about particular case - Coraline - and I would ha=
ve
> asked same questions if she 'd be male or undecided or whatever. For what=
 I
> care you are all letters on my display and I treat you all equally.
>
> Next statements are just statistics derived from my 20 years of experienc=
e
> as engineer (working with different teams in different counties) and some
> publicly available data. In any team, I worked with, women/men are ~
> 1/10.If you'll look at github and look for accounts with photos on them -
> like 90% of them will be of caucasian or asian male. I'm not trying to
> imply anything from these facts (e.g. best engineer I worked with during =
my
> career was actually black (and I don't care about USA PC - we call black
> people "black" here and everybody, including black people, are OK with
> that)), just something for you to think about.
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Austin Ziegler <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Andrew Kirilenko <
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> 1. While I am using Ruby for past 15 years literally on daily basis, I
>>> am not affilated with the Ruby project in any way. What I will state be=
low
>>> should be interpreted as my personal opinion and should not be used aga=
inst
>>> Ruby project in any form.
>>> 2. I have nothing against people with any sexual habbits. Personally, I
>>> have FtM friend and quite few gay friends. I respect them for what they=
 do
>>> in their professional life and/or other areas we share. I can't care le=
ss
>>> for what they do in their bedrooms. It's their life, they can do whatev=
er
>>> they want with it.
>>>
>> 3. I separate my professional activities from my other activities. I'd
>>> work with trans, gay, child molester, serial killer, even Hitler himsel=
f if
>>> they will add value to the project, I'm working on.
>>>
>>
>> A couple of quick notes, starting here: your statement here is something
>> that reflects a systematic cultural bias. In general, people of minority
>> status cannot separate their minority status(es) from their professional
>> work any more than people of majority status can separate their majority
>> status(es) from their professional work. It may seem like someone who is=
 in
>> a majority position can do so, but that is only because their majority
>> status *permeates the culture* within which they work. Understand, I am
>> *not* passing judgement on this systematic cultural bias, merely calling=
 it
>> out as an explicit thing. People who are minorities are *consistently*
>> reminded of that minority status on a regular basis without anyone even
>> trying.
>>
>>
>>> Does Ruby project need this code of conduct? Definitely no. I interacte=
d
>>> with community (mostly @ IRC channel) and it was ALWAYS nice, welcoming=
 and
>>> helpful. No exceptions. Even matz answered my (not always properly
>>> formulated, I must admit) questions several times. No one asked anythin=
g
>>> about my sex, age, skin color, nationality, religious believes or anyth=
ing
>>> else not related to the problem in question. I simply don't see problem
>>> which should be solved with this code of conduct.
>>>
>>
>> This is a deflection. The problem that some of us are calling out is tha=
t
>> *you may not see the problems* because you are not attuned to them. I
>> rarely see the problems because I=E2=80=99m not attuned to them naturall=
y (this is
>> something I have to work at because I reflect the majority in many
>> different ways).
>>
>>
>>> Now let's look at Coraline's github. What we see there? Right, code of
>>> conduct itself and few forks and hello worlds. Did she added anything
>>> useful to community? Maybe, but not for me. Rest of the guys and gils f=
rom
>>> this fine group? I forced myself to check 5 more accounts (in order of
>>> appearing in (in)famous opal #941) - all the same - endless hello world=
s
>>> and playgrounds. Nothing even remotely useful. Of course, my opinion is
>>> biased by Coraline's personality here, so I might be totally wrong. So,
>>> Coraline, show us your code and I'll appologize to you personally. And =
no,
>>> statements of your friends "Coraline is one of the most seasoned develo=
pers
>>> I seen" or "Coraline is panelist of ruby rogues" (I don't even understa=
nd
>>> what does it mean) does not count.
>>>
>>
>> See, this is part of the problem. Yes, there are women who code. But
>> there are subtle disincentives to contribution for a lot of women, and
>> comparisons like this (=E2=80=9CI haven=E2=80=99t seen anything useful, =
so nothing she=E2=80=99s
>> done must be useful=E2=80=9D) are one such disincentive.
>>
>> If you want a few examples from the Ruby community, look at:
>>
>> * mperham/sidekiq
>> * rails/rails (or rails/rails.github.com)
>> * rspec/rspec
>>
>> I=E2=80=99ve only added it to mime-types/ruby-mime-types so far, but wil=
l be
>> adding it to halostatue/diff-lcs, halostatue/minitar, and halostatue/col=
or
>> in the coming months (among others as I make modifications).
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m not looking to make anyone believe what I believe. What I=E2=
=80=99m telling
>> people is that as long as I=E2=80=99m running those projects and maintai=
ning those
>> gems, I will be holding both myself and anyone who contributes to the
>> projects to a high standard designed to combat harassment and create a m=
ore
>> welcoming environment.
>>
>> -a
>> --
>> Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 [e-mail] =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatu=
e.ca
>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>
>>
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