From: Austin Ziegler Date: 2016-01-22T00:45:39-05:00 Subject: [ruby-core:73123] Re: [Ruby trunk - Misc #12004] Code of Conduct --===============1943627276== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83a701d3e6ef0529e5bbef --e89a8f83a701d3e6ef0529e5bbef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matz, I respectfully disagree. Enforcement should be written in a CoC to be meaningful and effective. Inasmuch as we want a CoC, we want this for a couple of reasons (IMO): 1. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Ruby specifically, consider certain behaviours unacceptable, especially those involving harassment of any kind and marginalizing behaviour; 2. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Ruby specifically, are marking the official spaces for Ruby (ruby-core, ruby-talk and other official mailing lists; the Redmine instance for issues with Ruby and related projects; the ruby/ruby Github repo; etc.) as *safe spaces* where people can be assured that harassment will not be tolerated. I also disagree that banning is meaningless; there may be little that can be done against determined attackers who can repeatedly create new accounts, etc., but as a *signal*, temporary and/or permanent banning of particular personae can be very useful. This isn=E2=80=99t to say that I think that signaling is the *only* reason = to do these, but that the signals themselves are important because it will encourage greater participation by people who find themselves otherwise intimidated. You will choose as you believe you should, but I strongly encourage you to keep some enforcement for when the rules/guidelines are broken, because they will otherwise be seen as empty promises. On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:22 AM, wrote: > Issue #12004 has been updated by Yukihiro Matsumoto. > > > David Celis wrote: > > This is an unfortunate conundrum, then. A code of conduct should be > treated similarly to a law. If there aren't repercussions for violating i= t, > and if it's not enforced, it's ultimately meaningless. The Ruby maintaine= rs > and community need to be willing to uphold a commitment to this sort of > code of conduct, IMO > > But what kind of enforcement we can do? As I said before, banning is > meaningless (in our community). Only we can do is reject/remove/edit > issues/pages/conversations with problems, but I don't think it needs to b= e > written in CoC. > > Matz. > > ---------------------------------------- > Misc #12004: Code of Conduct > https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56345 > > * Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke > * Status: Assigned > * Priority: Normal > * Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto > ---------------------------------------- > I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open > Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github > that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant > by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's > Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse= , > rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration = an > option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license > selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted the > code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and > Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby > projects that had a solid code of conduct in place. > > Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting > the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopt= ed > by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopti= ng > it for the core Ruby language as well. > > Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is > define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, > courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from > people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all > contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or oth= er > factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on > these values with action when and if an incident arises. > > I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the > adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that > this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued > welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full > text of the Contributor Covenant at > http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at > http://contributor-covenant.org/. > > Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts= . > > > > > -- > https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > --=20 Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 halostatue@gmail.com =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatue.c= a http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue --e89a8f83a701d3e6ef0529e5bbef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Matz, I respectfully disagree. Enforcement should be writt= en in a CoC to be meaningful and effective. Inasmuch as we want a CoC, we w= ant this for a couple of reasons (IMO):

1. To signal tha= t we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Ruby speci= fically, consider certain behaviours unacceptable, especially those involvi= ng harassment of any kind and marginalizing behaviour;
2. To sign= al that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Ruby= specifically, are marking the official spaces for Ruby (ruby-core, ruby-ta= lk and other official mailing lists; the Redmine instance for issues with R= uby and related projects; the ruby/ruby Github repo; etc.) as *safe spaces*= where people can be assured that harassment will not be tolerated.

I also disagree that banning is meaningless; there may be= little that can be done against determined attackers who can repeatedly cr= eate new accounts, etc., but as a *signal*, temporary and/or permanent bann= ing of particular personae can be very useful.

Thi= s isn=E2=80=99t to say that I think that signaling is the *only* reason to = do these, but that the signals themselves are important because it will enc= ourage greater participation by people who find themselves otherwise intimi= dated.

You will choose as you believe you should, = but I strongly encourage you to keep some enforcement for when the rules/gu= idelines are broken, because they will otherwise be seen as empty promises.=

On Fr= i, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:22 AM, <matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
Issue #12004 has been updated by Yukihiro = Matsumoto.


David Celis wrote:
> This is an unfortunate conundrum, then. A code of conduct should be tr= eated similarly to a law. If there aren't repercussions for violating i= t, and if it's not enforced, it's ultimately meaningless. The Ruby = maintainers and community need to be willing to uphold a commitment to this= sort of code of conduct, IMO

But what kind of enforcement we can do? As I said before, banning is= meaningless (in our community). Only we can do is reject/remove/edit issue= s/pages/conversations with problems, but I don't think it needs to be w= ritten in CoC.

Matz.

----------------------------------------
Misc #12004: Code of Conduct
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#c= hange-56345

* Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke
* Status: Assigned
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto
----------------------------------------
I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open So= urce projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that = have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a l= ot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's Atom= text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspe= c, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an opt= ion in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection.= Many open source language communities have already adopted the code of con= duct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple's Swif= t. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a= solid code of conduct in place.

Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting the= Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted by= the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopti= ng it for the core Ruby language as well.

Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is def= ine what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtes= y, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people wh= o may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors rega= rdless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it = makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with = action when and if an incident arises.

I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting th= e adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that = this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcom= ing and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of t= he Contributor Covenant at http://contributor-covenant= .org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at http://contributor-covenan= t.org/.

Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.<= br>



--
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:= ruby-core-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/m= ailman/options/ruby-core>



--
=
Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 halostatue@gmail.com =E2=80=A2 <= a href=3D"mailto:austin@halostatue.ca" target=3D"_blank">austin@halostatue.= ca
http://ww= w.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue
--e89a8f83a701d3e6ef0529e5bbef-- --===============1943627276== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Unsubscribe: --===============1943627276==--