From: vjatseslav.gedrovits@... Date: 2016-01-25T16:18:12+00:00 Subject: [ruby-core:73424] [Ruby trunk - Misc #12004] Code of Conduct Issue #12004 has been updated by Vjatseslav Gedrovits. OK, let's step back and see the bigger picture. What is proposed is some kind of regulatory document, with consequences, focused on rights on few specific groups. Mentions the harassment word, which should be cautiously used in terms of legal law. If Ruby tech community will decide adopt something like proposed Covenant, it will approve that we have problems described in the document, which is not true. What's the problem with current state of Ruby tech community? You can do pull requests, discuss the issues and nobody cares who you are or what you do in real life. Do we have cases where pull request was rejected because of race? Do we have cases where issues were rejected because was posted by someone of 'alternative' sex? What is proposed here is code, which will benefit few specific groups, who will then eradicate others who don't belong in 'their' world. This is not integration for those few group into, but force takeover. Like was said by person who proposed that on Twitter: (https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/690334282607378432) Read this like: we need some other, 'org' to manage Ruby tech community, someone who 'knows better' I suppose than we are? I am in Ruby community for a few years now and not ever encountered any problems because of nationality, gender or whatever. If you read the Internet you see a lot of negative reaction against our people. Does this makes me harassed? Should I go and silently cry on Uncle Putin's shoulder? No. People are people. They may have opinions not same as yours. This is normal, unless they try to force their opinion as the only one truthy. Returning to the point of proposed document. Group here is trying to force the conduct, which can be valid in some countries and societies. Ruby projects are international. There is no single country, which must dictate own rules about this. As an example, even mentioning this "gender" VS "gender identity" VS "gender expression" stuff is forbidden by the law in Russia and other countries, who are also part of this tech community. Accepting conduct which is valid in US is like yelling: we don't care about the others, we care only about rules existing in specific country. Trying to adopt all possible countries laws will lead to fail and bureaucracy. I can be insulted by things not appropriate in our country, nation or whatever, but who cares about us, yeah? We must make this group happy, because of what reason again? "Build it and they will come"? Thousands of new contributors, who can't currently send issues and pull requests because of what? They are being harrased on every step? Bullish. Tech community doesn't care about all that, you write good code, improve workflow and make better software - nobody cares who you are in real life. Just do what you can to improve, that's all you need to do. Michael Jackson was considered pedophile, did people listen to his music less? No, because art != person created it. OJ Simpson killed his wife because of 'race issues', does this makes 'Naked Gun' less funny movie? No, because art != person created it. SASS was developed by Natalie Weizenbaum (https://twitter.com/nex3), does this makes SASS less popular? (Pun not intended) No, because no one cares about identity of developer who done something great. Software is art in some way, we are not 100% tech writers, as mentioned DHH, but in some points it really resembles art. Technical communities can happily live and prosper without forcing rules of specific groups. Personal life of people should not even be mentioned in OS tech community. They already contribute their own time and do great things. Any type of specifics described in current Covenant will lead only to less adoption, more load on contributors and a lot of controversies and witch hunts performed by group, who are forcing it now. The real victims of witch hunts: Matt Taylor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taylor_(scientist)) was accused by other radical group and for what? For the thing which is not even related to his work. This is just a shirt, ffs. In other countries people don't care about stuff like that. Linus Torvalds (http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/04/feminists-are-trying-to-frame-linus-torvalds-for-sexual-assault-claims-open-source-industry-veteran/) Brendan Eich (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10767104/Mozilla-appoints-new-CEO-after-gay-marriage-controversy.html) "master" / "slave" thing... (https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/26k5la/django_replaces_masterslave_terminology_with/) This list can go on and on. Those SJW groups force other people to suffer, and they like it very much. Why? Because the can, because they are allowed to do so. Do Ruby contributors can't live without this CoC? Are YOU ready just to throw own thoughts, opinions, beliefs, feelings in a trash can, because someone thinks 'we have problems'? Filter own every word, think about what will or will not 'hurt' someone else? Not on code, but in personal life, social networks, everywhere there is agents of those 'groups' who wait silently for you to do something they will consider harmful / harassment. And they do, as topic starter dug the Twitter of contributors and turned this into an example. This is troubling that people just adopt the text, without thinking about consequences and what it leads to. We are nice guys, follow us. Bundler on gem generation now even by default suggests to add this document to the gems, so some people can just press 'y' without reading it, because Bundler can't suggest wrong thing, right? If there still people who think our tech community can't live without someone pointing the 'right way', and MINASWAN is not enough, then this one looks promising: > Postulate 1: People are people and have a diverse set of beliefs, behaviors, identities, and thoughts > Postulate 2: Many of these factors should not and will not play into contributing to an open source project. > Postulate 3: If they do, there may be repercussions or, in certain cases, support can be offered. > Postulate 4: Behavior, expression of beliefs, expression of identity, etc OUTSIDE THE PROJECT has no bearing on any of this. Respect each other and do what we do best - code. P.S. Sorry for my English, there may be mistakes. ---------------------------------------- Misc #12004: Code of Conduct https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56645 * Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke * Status: Assigned * Priority: Normal * Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto ---------------------------------------- I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted the code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a solid code of conduct in place. Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopting it for the core Ruby language as well. Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with action when and if an incident arises. I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of the Contributor Covenant at http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at http://contributor-covenant.org/. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. ---Files-------------------------------- Screen Shot 2016-01-22 at 6.45.23 PM.png (595 KB) Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Numbers.png (119 KB) Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Discussion.png (143 KB) -- https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/ Unsubscribe: