From: michael libby Date: 2002-01-22T22:58:30+09:00 Subject: [OT & long] Re: GUI APIs --=.4ZOXDDHG?Rf6lY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (on Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:39:17 +0900) Albert Wagner wrote: > windows-only users have the parasitic mentality inherited from Micros**t > of waiting for someone else to do it, or if they do it, making it > proprietary and charging for it. Please save the Micros~1 bashing for when it's important. They didn't invent parasitism, apathy, copyrights, or selling stuff. > > I don't think there can be one standard GUI for both unix and windows > > that will satisfy the windows community. > Duh! Sure there is! It is called Windows-- write something like that for Unix and the Windows-users will be quite satisfied! :) So as soon as someone writes an API to a Unix toolkit that looks and feels the same to calling programs as that of the Windows API, there will be no need to argue further. All developers seeking cross-platform-ability can use that API, no matter how pathetic it may be. And if that API could drive gtk+, Qt, Tk, Fox, or more than one of the above, in the manner of the "virtual toolkit" mentioned in the original rant... Now, whether this is sane and whether anyone who develops on Linux or Unix actually wants to be constrained to a Windows API is a whole other question. I'm sure it would be summarily dismissed as NIH, ugly, and/or inadequate, even though it is quite popular with the masses. And back to the original rant: let's look at the charges it levelled at Tk. It's ugly? Maybe. But I'm guessing its visual simplicity is *why* this toolkit runs in so many places. And other than minor aesthetic concerns, I don't know what it doesn't do that's so important. And I don't know why someone who cares about those missing features can't code them up-- it *is* open source after all. And yes, Tk should have a better library of composite widgets-- but I think I prefer to see these coded in the native language rather than compiled into the .so or .dll. For example, it sounds to me like several of us are working on subclassing the TkText class to be a more powerful editor (sound like the XP guys were going to use it as an example for an article, I saw another post about using it for syntax coloring). I know my TkEditor class is much more fun to use than plain old TkText-- since I've added a right-click menu that has options for cut, copy, paste, eval code, check GnuPG signature of selected text, save to file, etc. And maybe it's ugly compared to some of the more popular Linux toolkit choices, but Tk is certainly as attractive as Windows is. There's no reason you can't have buttons that look exactly the same as any other toolkit where the bitmaps for the icons are available. Most of the colors and effects are configurable. And it's a *scripting* toolkit... how attractive does it have to be? Either way, it is not difficult to build a class that "skins" your Tk applications. You don't have to live with grey! > 2) Linux-only users: Ruby currently has good support for the popular > Linux OS GUIs: Tk, Fox, & Qt. So they are happy. How popular is Fox? I've never heard of it until a month ago myself-- and I haven't seen any projects outside of Ruby that use it. It doesn't even have a Perl binding on CPAN that I could find. Does it have any major projects that rely on it? gtk+ and Qt both have whole desktop systems geared to using them-- including email clients and web browsers. AFAICS, Tk is the de facto standard for scripting outside the confines of those two desktop systems... but what is the compelling reason to have Fox? Are there Linux distros including it as default or an obvious option? But I very much like the idea of a universal API that uses a native widget set to perform. I would use such a beast. It would also benefit Linux-only developers/users, since it means that there is no fight about Tk, Qt, or gtk+ to be had. You simply use the API and let the user decide or default to the toolkit they're using for the other applications on their screen. -- ______Michael_C_Libby__{_x_(at)_ichimunki_(dot)_com_}______ | "even monkeys fall from trees" : "saru mo ki kara ochiru" | | public key at http://www.ichimunki.com/public.key | |_Fingerprint: D946FE20 79EE2109 161BFAFB E02956F4 A330AA73_| --=.4ZOXDDHG?Rf6lY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8TW+J4ClW9KMwqnMRAkewAKCkJd7qEW8Q+WmBRe3Q2NxeCnPGfgCfZxLD nlTbV5WvTjBfFiWDm1Jy+vw= =giB2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.4ZOXDDHG?Rf6lY--