[#29932] Happy 2002! — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...>

Happy New Year from Washington DC!

24 messages 2002/01/01
[#29938] RE: Happy 2002! — "James Britt (rubydev)" <james@...> 2002/01/01

>

[#29954] Re: Happy 2002! — Dinakar <Desai.Dinakar@...> 2002/01/01

"James Britt (rubydev)" wrote:

[#29991] Execing command with backquotes — mail02@... (Frank Benoit)

Hi

13 messages 2002/01/01

[#30101] Ruby Weekly News rdf feed now available — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

12 messages 2002/01/03

[#30191] chomp for arrays? — dempsejn@...

Hi All,

25 messages 2002/01/04
[#30238] Re: chomp for arrays? — adamspitz@... (Adam Spitz) 2002/01/04

How about something like this?

[#30248] Re: chomp for arrays? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/01/05

On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:53:14AM +0900, Adam Spitz wrote:

[#30357] snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/06

Hello --

[#30369] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — "Mark Hahn" <mchahn@...> 2002/01/06

A daydream of mine is a "super-require" that if the file was not found, the

[#30401] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — Dan Sugalski <dan@...> 2002/01/07

At 06:31 AM 1/7/2002 +0900, Mark Hahn wrote:

[#30195] should I use ruby instead of perl — vekkuli ketkutin <qvyht@...>

simple question...

25 messages 2002/01/04

[#30265] Structs and Marshalling — Albert Wagner <alwagner@...>

I keep getting myself tripped up when I Marshal Struct objects. I typically

18 messages 2002/01/05
[#30281] Re: Structs and Marshalling — ts <decoux@...> 2002/01/05

>>>>> "A" == Albert Wagner <alwagner@tcac.net> writes:

[#30334] Re: Structs and Marshalling — Albert Wagner <alwagner@...> 2002/01/06

On Saturday 05 January 2002 06:25 am, you wrote:

[#30473] Re: [ruby-talk:30334] Re: Structs and Marshalling — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/07

Hi,

[#30528] Possible bug with struct.c (Re: Re: Structs and Marshalling) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/01/07

>>>>> "Y" == Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> writes:

[#30546] Re: Possible bug with struct.c (Re: Re: Structs and Marshalling) — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/07

At Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:36:12 +0900,

[#30274] The Ruby Way — "Conrad Schneiker" <schneiker@...>

Hi,

31 messages 2002/01/05
[#30275] RE: The Ruby Way — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/05

> From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:schneiker@jump.net]

[#30276] Re: The Ruby Way — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/05

That was supposed to say "how do I implement a hash with duplicate keys?"

[#30320] Sorting a Hash by value of integer stored in the Hash — Michael Joner <finalfrontier@...>

I have a program which creates a Hash array. The ultimate result is a

14 messages 2002/01/06

[#30327] one liner / overriden class repository — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

Why aim if not high? :-)

15 messages 2002/01/06

[#30366] class name reported differently in different contexts — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...>

30 messages 2002/01/06
[#30380] Re: class name reported differently in different contexts — "Chr. Rippel" <chr_news@...> 2002/01/06

[#30496] Re: class name reported differently in different contexts — <ale@...> 2002/01/07

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Chr. Rippel wrote:

[#30372] [ANN] Invitation to join LotY (Language of the Year) project, 2002: learning Haskell — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Dear fellow programmers,

10 messages 2002/01/06

[#30431] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

The way i was thinking of this working would be this: someone has heard of a

14 messages 2002/01/07

[#30461] Re: the [ruby-talk] is gone? — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

Hi Matz,

13 messages 2002/01/07

[#30494] Segfault with druby and fork — Michael Witrant <mike@...>

Hello,

24 messages 2002/01/07
[#30510] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/07

Hi,

[#30543] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — Michael Witrant <mike@...> 2002/01/07

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:37:14 +0900

[#30640] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/08

Hi,

[#30644] An Update on the FreeRIDE Project — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/08

I wanted to give everyone an update on where we are with the FreeRIDE

[#30655] Re: An Update on the FreeRIDE Project — bobx@... (Bob) 2002/01/08

Documentation should also be a big(?) concern. I am new to Ruby as

[#30539] RDoc Alpha-6 available — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

37 messages 2002/01/07

[#30737] rpkg 0.1 (long) — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>

<yaaawn>

16 messages 2002/01/10

[#30866] Dir.entries have no home — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

Chet and I were writing a little code manager yesterday and we wrote

38 messages 2002/01/11

[#30920] MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2002/01/11
[#30953] Re: MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...> 2002/01/12

[#30969] Re: MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...> 2002/01/12

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

[#30949] Another suggestion for FreeRIDE — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

Based on some discussions over at comp.lang.python...

13 messages 2002/01/12

[#31017] Why I think Ruby will eventually be more popular than Python — gandy@... (Thomas Gandy)

Ruby and Python both play in the same niche: they're both Object

9 messages 2002/01/12

[#31080] Best way for platf. independent compression? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>

Currently, rpkg builds packets by tar'ring and gzip'ping the source

25 messages 2002/01/13
[#31112] Re: Best way for platf. independent compression? — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...> 2002/01/14

On 1/13/02 1:42 PM, "Massimiliano Mirra" <list@chromatic-harp.com> wrote:

[#31153] Re: Best way for platf. independent compression? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/01/14

On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:08:58PM +0900, Chris Gehlker wrote:

[#31085] Small Methods - a ramble — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

I noticed in some code that Chet and I were writing that, as Smalltalkers, we tend to write really

45 messages 2002/01/13
[#31170] Re: Small Methods - a ramble — Brian Marick <marick@...> 2002/01/14

Ron Jeffries wrote:

[#31099] a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...>

49 messages 2002/01/14
[#31237] Re: a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/15

Hi,

[#31276] Re: a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...> 2002/01/15

[#31251] Swig Ruby documentation mods. — Hugh Sasse Staff Elec Eng <hgs@...>

I have been trying to use Swig Ruby recently, and in attempting to

10 messages 2002/01/15

[#31262] grabbing stuff from web pages — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

Part of my web site has recommended books. I use the cover jpegs from

11 messages 2002/01/15

[#31275] how to get all the reserved words? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>

Hi;

16 messages 2002/01/15

[#31289] memory usage question — "Mark Hahn" <mchahn@...>

I need to write a script that will use a hash with 4 million strings of 16

30 messages 2002/01/15

[#31311] Vote for Windows Installer packages — Andrew Hunt <andy@...>

14 messages 2002/01/15

[#31404] Re: A question on Ruby Threads — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

In article <a242re$gop@ftp.ee.vill.edu>, "Chris Gehlker"

15 messages 2002/01/16

[#31424] A few words on threads — "Avdi B. Grimm" <avdi@...>

Warning: many strong personal opinions and broad

14 messages 2002/01/16

[#31442] #59 Add fsync method to IO class — hensleyl@... (Leslie Hensley)

Adding fsync and fdatasync methods to the IO class will allow Ruby to

17 messages 2002/01/16

[#31512] Hello! Array sub classing? — Markt <markt@...>

Hello Ruby lovers!

23 messages 2002/01/17

[#31533] Possible bug in Mac version? — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

16 messages 2002/01/17

[#31564] The first alternative RDoc template — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

22 messages 2002/01/17

[#31658] dynamic method creation — "Albert L. Wagner" <alwagner@...>

I have a need to dynamically create methods with method names

16 messages 2002/01/18

[#31711] Re: zip on Linux — "Mirabai Neumann" <webmaster@...>

19 messages 2002/01/19

[#31727] Keeping track of multiple Ruby discussion sites. — "James Britt (rubydev)" <james@...>

Recently, Massimiliano Mirra wrote:

13 messages 2002/01/19

[#31735] installing mod_ruby --> seg fault in ruby-rdtool — craig@...

At least that's where core dumped. FreeBSD/Alpha (4.4-RELEASE). New to

16 messages 2002/01/19

[#31741] $_ as default parameter for a function — thomass@... (Thomas)

I'd like the fragment below to produce "blah blah", but it doesn't

15 messages 2002/01/19

[#31882] RANT: Ruby GUI API — Sean Russell <ser@...>

I started this rant in another thread, where it was way OT, so I'm moving

60 messages 2002/01/21

[#31937] Re: RANT: Ruby GUI API — Ben Crowell <crowell02@...>

M. Mirra wrote:

28 messages 2002/01/22
[#31948] Re: RANT: Ruby GUI API — John Carter <john.carter@...> 2002/01/22

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Crowell wrote:

[#32056] Ruby Publishing Framework v0.5.0 — Bryan Murphy <bryan@...>

Ruby Publishing Framework

15 messages 2002/01/22

[#32106] about time for seperate lists? — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

Hi all,

12 messages 2002/01/23

[#32121] : ruby-talk seperation — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

Hi all,

19 messages 2002/01/23

[#32177] — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...>

I have a problem loading files from my script (I mean Kernel::load):

20 messages 2002/01/23
[#32187] — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/23

Hi,

[#32722] Re: — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/01/29

Hello nobu,

[#32728] Re: — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/29

Hi,

[#32793] Re[2]: — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/01/30

Tuesday, January 29, 2002, 5:05:05 PM, you wrote:

[#32799] $: in mod_ruby — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/30

Hi,

[#32957] Re: $: in mod_ruby — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/02/01

Wednesday, January 30, 2002, 4:55:23 PM, you wrote:

[#32233] Subclassing vs Subtyping (partly OOP vs FP) — Robert Feldt <feldt@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2002/01/24
[#33032] Re: Subclassing vs Subtyping (partly OOP vs FP) — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/02/03

Lewis Perin <perin@panix.com> writes:

[#32247] Array.last Weirdness — Jesse Jones <jesjones@...>

I'd expect the following code:

19 messages 2002/01/24

[#32312] Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

42 messages 2002/01/24
[#32315] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/24

Hello --

[#32400] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — billtj@... (Bill Tj) 2002/01/25

Hi,

[#32404] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/25

Hello --

[#32319] looking for an example problem to demonstrate TaskMaster — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm looking for suggestions here...

19 messages 2002/01/24

[#32355] RDoc learns to draw pictures... — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

15 messages 2002/01/25
[#32377] Re: [ANN] RDoc learns to draw pictures... — "Pit Capitain" <pit@...> 2002/01/25

On 25 Jan 2002, at 9:34, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#32388] Ruby Developers Guide — Robert Feldt <feldt@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2002/01/25

[#32401] Sourcecode dump? — Olivier CARRERE <carrere@...>

Hello,

12 messages 2002/01/25

[#32417] Subrange of String subclass => invalid object — "Bob Alexander" <bobalex@...>

Given these conditions:

52 messages 2002/01/25

[#32445] "friend" alternative in Ruby? — kturing@... (kate turing)

I have a class "Foo". It has a method "doSecretStuff" that I want to

13 messages 2002/01/26

[#32465] rubyzip 0.3.1 — thomass@... (Thomas)

rubyzip 0.3.1 is out.

18 messages 2002/01/26

[#32593] OT: tools for creating documentation — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm going to be creating a good bit of documentation for TaskMaster and I

12 messages 2002/01/27

[#32646] popen3 and buffering — Paul Brannan <paul@...>

I have a program test.rb:

26 messages 2002/01/28

A few words on threads

From: "Avdi B. Grimm" <avdi@...>
Date: 2002-01-16 17:32:08 UTC
List: ruby-talk #31424
Warning: many strong personal opinions and broad
generalizations to follow.

Someone asked a question about Ruby threads, and the
answers he recieved depressed me, so I thought I'd add my
own two cents.

I'm always amazed, working in an embedded/real-time
programming field as I do, at the aura of mystery and deep
magic that still seems to surround threads whenever they
are brought up in a scripting-language context.  Personally
I can't imagine working without threads for many types of
program.  Threads are practically required for any modern
non-trivial network programming.  Threads are, IMHO, right
above basic file I/O in terms of "concepts that every
programmer needs to have at least a basic knowledge of". 
They are not deep, arcane mysteries used only by gurus in
specialized fields.  They are basic tools of everyday
programming.

In essence, a multi-threaded program is one in which, at
least conceptually, several paths of execution are being
executed at once.  This doesn't (necessarily) have anything
to do with having multiple physical CPUs.  Modern operating
systems simulate concurrent processing using time slices. 
A well-designed operating system takes advantage of
multiple processors by distributing native threads evenly
across the processors; but this is a detail of
implementation that is completely hidden by the OS.

The unix fork() call does not create a thread.  It creates
a Process.  The difference is: a process gets a complete
copy of the environment it's parent process was executing
in.  This means that a copy is made of all the memory
associated with the parent process.  A thread, on the other
hand, executes in the *same* environment as it's parent and
sibling threads.  They all have access to the same
variables, the same data structures.  There are a couple of
results of this:  first, threads are *much* more efficient,
in both memory and processor usage, than processes.  A
native thread can be created very quickly, and the extra
memory overhead it incurs is minimal, just enough to hold
it's stack.  Modern operating systems like Linux and NT are
designed to juggle native threads very efficiently.  The
fact of shared memory also means that threads can work very
intimately with each other; the flip side of this is that
they can very easily get in each other's way and corrupt
shared memory.  These problems have spawned a whole family
of synchronization schemes which, when used properly, can
yield programs where dozens of threads work together in
perfect clockwork harmony.

POSIX threads, aka Pthreads, is a definition of a standard
threading *API*, not an implementation.  Many operating
systems implement Pthreads.  Having a Pthreads
implementation does not mean that the OS implements threads
in a certain way; rather, it means that any hacker coding
for the OS knows (for example) that they can call
spawn(&func), and it will start a thread whose entry point
is 'func'.  They also know that they have access to a
well-defined set of synchronization primitives such as
mutexes.

The meaning of "native threads" in a language is simple: it
means that the language allows the programmer to create
multiple threads which are then scheduled by the OS's
scheduler.  These native threads can take advantage of any
threading optimizations in the kernel.  But the most
important advantage is the preemptiveness of the kernel's
scheduler: there is no way for a single thread to hang up
the entire program, unless the programmer explicitly
arranges for it.  Perl provides an interface to native
threads, as does Python (although I've heard that Python's
implementation is fairly crude).  In Ruby, on the other
hand, when certain system calls are made, the whole program
halts until the call returns.  This can wreak havoc in
programs where certain threads are time-sensitive - for
instance, if a network thread needs to send a heartbeat
packet many times a second to keep a connection alive.   

It's possible to create programs in Ruby which work around
this factor; but there's a certain amount of
trial-and-error involved. To the Ruby beginner who has just
read the Pickaxe, there's no way of knowing that this will
happen until his program mysteriously fails.  Errors caused
by ignorance of Ruby's cooperative threading model fall
into the particularly nasty  "unexpected side-effect"
category of bugs.  ("Why are none of my socket threads
communicating?!! All I added was a thread that reads from a
config file! They have nothing to do with each other!")

All of this, plus the fact that informal testing shows Ruby
threads to be unbelievably slow, is why I'm overjoyed to
hear that native threads are in the works for 2.0.  Until
then, despite Ruby's being one of my all-time favorite
languages, I generally can't even consider it for any
project beyond simple utility scripts.

Related reading: I've heard that the book "Programming with
POSIX(R) Threads" by David Butenhof is the best
introduction to threading concepts in general, and the
POSIX API in specific.  I haven't read it myself.

- Avdi Grimm

P.S. Does anyone here have any theories on /why/ threads
are still percieved as such an arcane topic in the UNIX and
scripting language communities?

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