From: Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>
Date: 2002-01-06T00:48:13+09:00
Subject: [ruby-talk:30289] Re: Summary: Call for a small program - willing to give a bonus

On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:14:11PM +0900, Tom Karas wrote:
> Some said to me, that i should not start to learn programing by
> producing a gui.
> Which is a said thing though. Considering the thread: "Ruby vs. Python -
> further development of python ..." i totally agree with the people who
> say the next thing desperately needed for python is a IDE (for example
> like in delphi). I did a little delphi myself and was really astonished
> that even someone like me (without knowing a programing language) is
> able to make a full working executable with a gui in no time. 
> 
> If there was a good IDE that would help to convert more people to either
> python or ruby. Because "semi-skilled" programers do not want to bother
> to learn how to handle gui-classes - for solving small problems - just
> my 2 Cent.

Delphi is wonderful at giving you motivation to go on programming,
because it gives you quick and visible results.  I wouldn't be here,
were it not for Delphi two years ago, and I suspect the same holds
true of many developers who didn't have enough patience to bang their
heads all the way through when trying to make C open a window.

Yet, it encourages bad programming in many ways.  I've seen horror
stories like this (in manuals, no less!):

procedure Button1Click(Sender: TObject)
begin
  Label1.Text = IntToStr(StrToInt(Edit1.Text)*2)
end

And talk about model/view. <grin>

This is what one should get rid of ASAP, not what should be taught in
manuals.  Sadly, most documentation aims to teach you the language,
not programming, and in the case of a tipically first-timer's language
like Delphi, that's shooting in one's own foot.  (Or someone else's
foot, from the point of view of doc writers.)

Hopefully, if such a so-called RAD environment with GUI builder for
Ruby will exist (though I don't consider Delphi half as R(apid)AD as
Ruby), there will be plenty of things to play with but also lots of
caveats in the documentation that warn: ``This is good for
experimenting, but for a real program you'll most likely want to...''

(Well, actually I'd rather see support for Glade and other
multi-language builders than much effort put in a Ruby-only solution.)

> No matter about the end of my small project - i would like to say that i
> really appreciated the comments and help given here. So thanks to all of
> you again.

Don't give up, there's a thousand ways that programming can be useful
to you.  Give it a try no matter what and see if you enjoy it (and
languages like Ruby make it much more enjoyable than Delphi itself, at
least that's my experience).  If you do enjoy it, the wheel will roll
on its own and you will wake up one morning and find yourself with the
skills to start this kind of project and probably many more.
G'luck. :-)

Massimiliano