[#37132] OT: Cool Open Source request — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>
Dave Thomas <Dave@pragmaticprogrammer.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 06:50:45AM +0900, Todd Gillespie wrote:
[#37143] re-extending object — Ed Sinjiashvili <edsin@...>
Hello,
[#37146] Trying to build eRuby under windows with GCC — "Philip Mateescu" <philip@...>
Hi,
[#37174] Re: String#begins?(s) — <mengx@...>
I implemented and have been using
[#37182] Sun Microsystems Buys Rights to Ruby — <james@...>
I'm surprised nobody in the list has mentioned this. I read in a ZDNet
[#37198] Larry Wall proclaims Ruby to be Perl 6 — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
As reported in the Ruby Weekly News:
[#37228] remacs — Yohanes Santoso <ysantoso@...>
Hi,
[#37231] Announcing New Ruby Book Under Development! — <robert.calco@...>
Everybody:
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 robert.calco@verizon.net wrote:
Have you checked out?
Hi,
On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 20:16, nobu.nokada@softhome.net wrote:
[#37232] seeking to understand... — Mark Probert <probertm@...>
In article <87d6xhaoif.fsf@jenny-gnome.dyndns.org>,
In article <3813.198.133.202.18.1017778936.squirrel@12.27.88.122>,
Kent Dahl wrote:
On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 05:33:49AM +0900, Dr. David Mertz wrote:
[#37253] Mixins vs. Multiple Inheritance — "Jason Voegele" <jason@...>
Given that including a module M into a class C
Hi,
[#37265] a note on the . and .. discussion — patrick-may@... (Patrick May)
I just realized that unix commands do not recognize the "." and ".."
[#37281] Is eval a code/design smell? — "Chris Morris" <home@...>
I seem to have an inherent distaste for eval, but I don't know why. I've
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 00:15:10 GMT, "Chris Morris" <home@clabs.org> wrote:
On Wed 03 Apr 2002 at 20:35:30 +0900, you wrote:
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 01:40, Ian Macdonald wrote:
On Thu 11 Apr 2002 at 22:07:03 +0900, you wrote:
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 12:06, Ian Macdonald wrote:
>>>>> "S" == Sean Middleditch <elanthis@awesomeplay.com> writes:
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 12:25, ts wrote:
>>>>> "S" == Sean Middleditch <elanthis@awesomeplay.com> writes:
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 12:42, ts wrote:
>>>>> "S" == Sean Middleditch <elanthis@awesomeplay.com> writes:
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 12:59, ts wrote:
>>>>> "S" == Sean Middleditch <elanthis@awesomeplay.com> writes:
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 02:05:09AM +0900, Sean Middleditch wrote:
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 02:34:29AM +0900, Alan Chen wrote:
> I never use eval. However, I use module_eval all the time. That is,
Sean Middleditch <elanthis@awesomeplay.com> wrote in message news:<1017933822.1548.12.camel@smiddle>...
On Thu, 2002-04-04 at 17:32, Avi Bryant wrote:
> I know I would. To me, that is indeed a language flaw. There should be
On Thu, 2002-04-04 at 20:33, Harry Ohlsen wrote:
[#37296] Request for Advice -- Undefined Symbol — Dennis Newbold <dennisn@...>
Unless you've tried doing something like this, you may not be
[#37301] statement separator — Yohanes Santoso <ysantoso@...>
Hi,
[#37308] TCPSocket::new in ruby 1.7 — "Nikolay Elkov" <nick@...>
When I execute the following
[#37320] Newbie Questions — ghost <ghost_djNOSP@...>
Apologies if there is a FAQ I missed or this is out of line here, but I
[#37342] regular expression question — "Firestone, Mark - Technical Support" <mark.firestone@...>
Thanks for the help with the tread questions guys... I have one about (gasp)
Hello --
[#37385] TextPad replacement for Linux? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>
TIA,
Gerhard H舐ing wrote:
[#37397] Really new-new-newbie question :) — "Philip Mateescu" <philip@...>
Hi,
[#37428] Re: mkmf.rb — Tobias DiPasquale <anany@...>
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:44:13 -0500, nobu.nokada wrote:
[#37454] ModRUBY question — George Moschovitis <gmosx@...>
Hi everybody,
George Moschovitis <gmosx@image.ece.ntua.gr> wrote:
yeas i think too that mod_ruby uses more than one interpreter. :(
> yeas i think too that mod_ruby uses more than one interpreter. :(
[#37462] Help: Ruby<->C++ callbacks — Luigi Ballabio <ballabio@...>
[#37464] SOAP query — Holden Glova <dsafari@...>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[#37470] Test the result of an initialization ? — jayce@... (Jayce Piel)
[#37482] Some ActiveRuby/RubyScript questions — Liorean <Liorean@...>
Greetings!
[#37494] REXML queries — "Nat Pryce" <nat.pryce@...13media.com>
Hi. A couple of queries about the wonderful REXML library.
[#37522] Ruby on the Sharp Zaurus? — "Stefan Matthias Aust" <sma@3plus4.de>
Hi!
[#37534] -- Starting a Background Process — Dennis Newbold <dennisn@...>
If I'm submitting this suggestion / request in the wrong form or place,
モヤチヤリナ <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020404133737.22806A-100000@shell2> Dennis Newbold ホチミノモチフ(チ):
Greetings,
>>>>> "A" == Arno Erpenbeck <aerpenbe@uni-osnabrueck.de> writes:
[#37540] Fibonacci Number Generators — jzakiya@... (Jabari Zakiya)
Hi, I'm a newbie, coming to Ruby from a
[#37549] OO/Ruby Terminology — <james@...>
I added a wiki page for Ruby book development ...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> From: bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Apr.07.02@telemark.stanford.edu
In article <PGEPJIFLPEPOHCKEEEIKIEFADCAA.james@rubyxml.com>,
> From: Chris [mailto:chris@cmb-enterprises.com]
Hi --
[#37591] Webrick session ? — "Stephan J. Schmidt" <stephan.schmidt@...>
Hello,
[#37616] Additions to math.c (more math functions) — Mike Hall <mghall@...>
Since 1.7 added the hyperbolic trig functions,
[#37617] Addition to file.c (File.extension) — Mike Hall <mghall@...>
Hi,
In message <20020408145239.67568.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com>
[#37635] ruby speed? — Tyler Spivey <tspivey8@...>
i don't know if this has been issued before,
[#37653] Switching from PHP to Ruby - Comments Please — Jim Freeze <jim@...>
Hi:
> Well, I'm about ready to make the switch to a Ruby based website. My
On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 03:44:58AM +0900, Sean Chittenden wrote:
On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 12:12:52PM +0900, james@rubyxml.com wrote:
Since I am planning on using MySQL (may switch to PostgreSQL,
> Since I am planning on using MySQL (may switch to PostgreSQL, but
[#37679] Socket API — Tom Gilbert <tom@...>
Could someone tell me how to create a "struct sockaddr stored in a
In article <20020407021324.GE6112@killik.co.uk>, Tom Gilbert wrote:
Hi,
Hi,
[#37700] IRB — Carl Parrish <cparrish@...>
I can't seem to get irb to work I can find the irb.rb file. but if I
[#37710] Exception instances... — Sean Chittenden <sean@...>
I don't understand where the following warning is coming from:
On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 10:33:27AM +0900, Sean Chittenden wrote:
[#37746] ruby-dev summary 16501-16750 — TAKAHASHI Masayoshi <maki@...>
Hi all,
>>>>> "M" == Michael Campbell <michael_s_campbell@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>>>> "M" == Michael Campbell <michael_s_campbell@yahoo.com> writes:
> From: TAKAHASHI Masayoshi
Hi,
[#37759] Threads — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>
Hi!
[#37767] Re: [patch] update to (X)Emacs modes — Ville Skytt<ville.skytta@...>
>> attached is a patch with some trivial changes to ruby-mode.el and
[#37778] ruby language capabilities — Soso Chs <sosoruby@...>
hi,
[#37781] capital method names — Paul Brannan <paul@...>
When I write:
Paul Brannan wrote:
[#37788] Little interface improvement request for embedding Ruby — "Christian Boos" <cboos@...>
Hi,
Hi,
[#37795] ruby + Creating and extending XML documents — Oliver Beddows <oliver@...>
Hi,
> I`m pretty new to Object Orientation, so am I being naive?
[#37797] Source code for _The Ruby Way_ — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
After much delay, I have delivered the
[#37807] RE: Source code for _The Ruby Way_ — "Pe, Botp" <botp@...>
Yes, pls.
[#37833] Ruby as replacement for VB? — "Robb Shecter" <rs@...>
Hi,
> Hi,
[#37835] crypting ruby source — Ludo <coquelle@...>
Hi,
Ludo <coquelle@enib.fr> wrote in message news:<3CB31298.13A44B26@enib.fr>...
> The reasons for doing this are obvious, $$. You want to distribute
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:55:45 GMT,
> > not trying to sound smartassy here, but the lack of native support for that
[#37838] Easy character comparisons — "Sean O'Dell" <sean@...>
Today I spent a little time debugging something I "didn't expect." I
[#37839] mix-in dependancy — Yohanes Santoso <ysantoso@...>
I'm playing around with the idea of attaching modules to some class
[#37887] why do the methods from my mixed-in module disappear? — Ian Macdonald <ian@...>
Have a look at this piece of code:
[#37898] SOAP4R/1.4.3 — "NAKAMURA, Hiroshi" <nahi@...>
Hi all,
Hi all,
Hi all,
[#37925] regex: how to negate sequences? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>
Hi,
[#37929] delete a sequence of chars — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>
Hi,
[#37962] Is Carbon ruby dead? — mattmsykes@... (Matt M Sykes)
The only info I've found is
[#37970] ruby and finance — Patrik Sundberg <ps@...>
Hi,
[#37991] OT: OO terminology — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
The terminology thread reminded me of something
[#37998] Anyone attending SD Expo on April 24? — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto)
Hi,
matz@ruby-lang.org (Yukihiro Matsumoto) writes:
[#38002] Am I going mad? Works in IRB not in a file! — "Ralph Mason" <ralph.mason@...>
This must be something I am doing wrong. In a file the output from this
[#38008] RegExp for "AND" search pattern... — patrick-may@... (Patrick May)
How could a regexp be constructed for an "AND" search pattern?
[#38044] RFC - class_added callback — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hello,
[#38046] GetoptLong question — djberg96@... (Daniel Berger)
Hi all,
On 11 Apr 2002, at 22:16, Daniel Berger wrote:
[#38055] Thread safety of Queue.push — Mathew Johnston <mjohnston@...>
I was wondering if it was safe to have multiple threads all pushing onto
[#38085] Array#pack: byte order for unsigned types — "Jason Voegele" <jason@...>
I've been using Array#pack heavily lately, and noticed that there is no way
HI,
[#38097] exceptions that are not Exceptions — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...>
If someone (not me) does this in an extension:
Hi,
[#38101] How to Make a Method Ineffective Efficiently? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>
Hi,
Hello,
Thanks for all the responses. I just want to add the final
[#38103] Is this behavior correct? — David Corbin <dcorbin@...>
--cut--
[#38106] Process controlls — johnwyp@... (JohnW)
OK, here's what I'm trying to do (keep in mind I'm a Ruby Nuby)...
[#38126] Ruby/Google — Ian Macdonald <ian@...>
Hi,
[#38136] Idea for a new shorthand — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
OK, maybe this is an idea no one will like. Or
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 03:59:51PM +0900, Hal E. Fulton wrote:
[#38138] Ruby and MSVC++ — "Anton V.Kondakov" <anton@...>
Hello
[#38167] Why Object#class Is Inconsistent in "==" and "case"? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>
Hi,
[#38199] not vs !, and vs && — <james@...>
I'm confused about the behavior of 'not'. The Pickaxe and Ruby21Days books
james@rubyxml.com wrote:
>
james@rubyxml.com wrote:
[#38234] Stop Using SOAP, Before It's Too Late — Tobias DiPasquale <anany@...>
Hi all,
I would like to suggest to have a look at REST instead if you are looking for a
[#38238] Barnes & Noble putting on the squeeze — David Alan Black <dblack@...>
Hello --
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, David Alan Black wrote:
In article <Pine.LNX.4.30.0204131135510.13223-100000@bigfun.whirlycott.com>,
[#38239] Freshmeat article about Ruby — Tobias DiPasquale <anany@...>
Hi all,
Tobias DiPasquale wrote:
Hi --
David Alan Black <dblack@candle.superlink.net> writes:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 01:07:22AM +0900, Mark Hulme Jones wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Paul Brannan wrote:
On 4/18/02 9:30 AM, "Pat Eyler" <pate@eylerfamily.org> wrote:
Jack Herrington wrote:
Hello --
> I highly recommend including the following disclaimer in every
[#38253] ring the alarm — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>
Hi,
[#38270] Silence warning — David Corbin <dcorbin@...>
/home/dcorbin/projects/homenet/tools/testall.rb:41: warning: already
[#38272] statements & expressions( was RE: not vs !, and vs && ) — <james@...>
> From: Guy N. Hurst [mailto:gnhurst@hurstlinks.com]
[#38287] RCR: key value mapping for sprintf/% — "Guy N. Hurst" <gnhurst@...>
I was on irc at irc.openprojects.net in #ruby-lang
[#38331] mime type — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>
Hi all,
[#38338] Compiling Ruby on Mac OS X — Alwyn <alwyn@...>
I've downloaded the latest Stable Snapshot and tried building it. It
In <20020415091534.A89552@freeze.org> Jim Freeze <jim@freeze.org> wrote:
On 4/15/02 6:41 AM, "Alwyn" <alwyn@alwyn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[#38365] RE: Pascal to Ruby — "Firestone, Mark - Technical Support" <mark.firestone@...>
Well, ya... I have a bunch of text, in (in pascal terms) an array of string.
[#38373] need help on using Ruby to replace some SED expressions — kackson@... (kackson)
I tried sed. But it is getting really tough when I keep realizing I've
[#38385] Ruby/Google 0.2.0 — Ian Macdonald <ian@...>
Hi all,
[#38389] Fw: Problem with the PDF of Programming Ruby — "Philip Mateescu" <philip@...>
Hi.
[#38432] - Cleanups — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hello,
[#38449] Help wanted for statvfs extension — djberg96@... (Daniel Berger)
Hi all,
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:04:06 +0900
Hi,
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:45:02 +0900
Hi,
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:59:00 +0900
Hi,
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:35:09 +0900
Hi,
Mike Hall <mghall@enteract.com> wrote in message
[#38461] Redefining module methods — "Sean O'Dell" <sean@...>
In two Ruby script files I have two methods of the same name within a single
[#38483] visual c, ruby, and fastcall hassle — Lorien Dunn <loriend@...>
Hello all,
Hi,
[#38525] resolv.rb Bug — "Roy J. Milican" <roy@...>
Greetings,
In article <28544001472.20020417142749@milican.com>,
Hi,
In article <200204180556.g3I5uTM16177@sharui.nakada.kanuma.tochigi.jp>,
Hi,
Greetings,
Hi,
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[#38535] RFC: article about testers using Ruby. — Brian Marick <marick@...>
I've written a first draft of an article with several ulterior motives. One
[#38547] Tk under Ruby [newbie to ruby] — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>
Hello!
"Kontra, Gergely" wrote:
>"Kontra, Gergely" wrote:
[#38555] ruby/postgres problem — "Steve Cranford" <stevecranford@...>
I'm trying to determine if a resultset is empty. if it is, I want to
[#38571] recursive require warning... — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
I ran into a problem with a Ruby script on Windows due to the fact that
[#38574] Object#send with $SAFE >= 1 — "Jason Voegele" <jason@...>
I'm writing a web application for which I need to call methods dynamically
On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 04:10:42AM +0900, Jason Voegele wrote:
[#38585] Ruby-Poll-0.01 — Michael Granger <ged@...>
Michael Granger wrote:
[#38587] Experimental language jtpl — Jakub Travnik <j.travnik@...>
Hello,
[#38592] GC problem in C++ extension — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...>
I have a test program that looks like this:
[#38627] Imlib2-Ruby 0.4.0 — Paul Duncan <pabs@...>
I just posted Imlib2-Ruby version 0.4.0, my Ruby bindings for Imlib2
Paul Duncan wrote:
Paul:
[#38633] Replacing groups of methods: How would *you* do this? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
Question for you.
[#38635] Threads creating threads creating threads... — Tobias Peters <tpeters@...>
I have already asked this question in [ruby-talk:19661], but I will ask it
My previous posting was not clear enough, I'll try to enhance it.
Tobias Peters <tpeters@uni-oldenburg.de> writes:
Hello,
On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Jean-Hugues ROBERT wrote:
[#38654] String to method name — "R.Seymour" <switch@...>
I feel like I have a learning disability asking this, but what I am
[#38694] Ruby on .NET? — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
I scanned the .net threads here and didn't see whether there is, or is not, an
recently found:
Sean Middleditch wrote:
From: ";" <bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Apr.22.02@telemark.stanford.edu>
<bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Apr.22.02@telemark.stanford.edu> ; wrote:
On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 03:33:43AM +0900, Avi Bryant wrote:
[#38704] Cardinal project page on Savannah — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
I started a Cardinal project page at Savannah. Those who are interested
[#38727] Q: Possible Palm OS port? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
Hello all,
[#38732] a newbie about local variables — Ferenc Engard <engard@...>
Hi there,
[#38739] problem with alias — "Guy N. Hurst" <gnhurst@...>
I just discovered a problem with how alias works while
[#38740] A few ideas/suggestions — Michael Brailsford <brailsmt@...>
I have had a few ideas about some new features. Before I submit an RCR
[#38766] Novice: Each and p — Thorsten Haude <ruby@...>
Hi,
[#38770] newbie embedding — "Jamie Knight" <bigjim16@...>
I only recently found out about ruby and I'm interested in embedding the
[#38772] MACROs cleanup 3 — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hi,
Hello,
[#38782] Compiling stable-snapshot on linux — Martin Stannard <martin@...>
Hi,
[#38832] ruby-dev summary 16851-16960 — TAKAHASHI Masayoshi <maki@...>
Hi all,
[#38839] building extensions-- new vs initialize — "Norman Makoto Su" <normsu@...>
Hi, I'm trying to build a ruby extension in C. While looking at the pickaxe CD
Hi,
Hi Norman,
[#38874] Is there a better way to convert between arrays and strings? — Bob Hutchison <hutch@...>
Hi,
[#38908] Minor Tk bug on Windows? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
Hello...
----- Original Message -----
[#38910] Numberic#prev — Sean Chittenden <sean@...>
I do a lot of incrementing and decrementing of values: it'd be nice if
Hi,
----- Original Message -----
Marko Schulz <in6x059@public.uni-hamburg.de> wrote:
[#38926] My First Time — Thorsten Haude <ruby@...>
Hi,
モヤチヤリナ <200204240855.g3O8tRu21875@sharui.nakada.kanuma.tochigi.jp> Nobuyoshi Nakada ホチミノモチフ(チ):
[#38929] Require vs. C++ include — werasmus@... (Werner)
Hi all,
[#38931] ZODB equivalent for ruby — "George Moschovitis" <gmosx@...>
Hi there,
[#38974] Xmms-Ruby 0.1.0 — Paul Duncan <pabs@...>
Hi,
[#38975] question about extending in C — "Richard P. Groenewegen" <rpg@...2all.net>
Hi,
[#38982] Glade???? — Carl Parrish <cparrish@...>
[#38983] appending methods to class inside module — Ian Macdonald <ian@...>
Hi,
Ian Macdonald <ian@caliban.org> writes:
[#38987] Problem? USENET NEWS split — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hi,
[#38993] Re: [Patch] Macros #4 — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hi,
Hi,
Hi everyone, I am an experienced Smalltalk/Java developer, and bought the
On 26 Apr 2002, David wrote (more or less):
[#39001] $_ if no |var| — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>
Hello!
On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Kontra, Gergely wrote:
At 22:59 25/04/2002 +0900, Lars Christensen wrote:
[#39015] a small ruby for embedded applications — mattmsykes@... (Matt M Sykes)
Hi,
[#39025] require 'aDir' — patrick-may@... (Patrick May)
Has this been discussed in the past?
[#39047] A Wild Idea: What do you think? — Jim Freeze <jim@...>
Hi:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, Jim Freeze wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Hal E. Fulton wrote:
[#39069] Parsing Repeating Regexp Matches — Curt Sampson <cjs@...>
[#39073] newbie: embedding ruby and garbage collection — "Baptiste Lepilleur" <gaiacrtn@...>
Hi everyone,
[#39087] RE: expand_path and overlap — "Morris, Chris" <chris.morris@...>
> I find this an interesting puzzle. Question: what would this return:
[#39094] RFC: File.join removing redundant /'s — mrp@...
[#39122] RE: A Wild Idea: What do you think? — "Morris, Chris" <chris.morris@...>
> > OK, then let's have it in Texas. How about August? Oh, what do you
On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 03:15:21AM +0900, Morris, Chris wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Jim Freeze wrote:
On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 01:14:28AM +0900, Pat Eyler wrote:
Hi --
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, David Alan Black wrote:
[#39141] RE: Small patch for ruby,vim syntax highlighting file — "Gray, Jeff" <jeff.gray@...>
> From: Michael Brailsford [mailto:brailsmt@yahoo.com]
> ":foo" will not highlight correctly unless you separate the colon
> > ":foo" will not highlight correctly unless you separate the colon
[#39142] TCL interpreter in Ruby? — Craig Files <craig_files@...>
Hi,
[#39169] mod_ruby for Windows? — "Rod Schmidt" <rschmidt@...>
Anyone got a mod_ruby binary for Windows yet?
> Anyone got a mod_ruby binary for Windows yet?
[#39171] cygwin1.dll missing or corrupt — slayer@... (Slayer)
I can't remember who was looking for it, but I found the following
[#39198] Anyway to un-include a module? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
[#39214] Q: string to class? — Mike Hall <mghall@...>
I've got a string, and I'd like to get a class reference.
[#39228] RubyConf.new(2002) - ideas for agenda — "Daniel Berger" <djberg96@...>
Ok - so I'm probably jumping the gun here, but hey, what the heck.
Hi --
David Alan Black [mailto:dblack@candle.superlink.net] wrote:
----- Original Message -----
[#39261] CGI API Rant — Thomas Hurst <tom.hurst@...>
Is it just me, and do I just need to use it more to see how great it is,
[#39304] alias_method problem — Stefan Mueller <flcl@...>
Hello
[#39323] Ranges - enable (10..-10) — Michal Rokos <m.rokos@...>
Hello,
Hello --
[#39327] Embeding Ruby — web2ed@... (Edward Wilson)
I would like to use Ruby as an embeded tool for a large scale mission
[#39338] An example of the beauty of Ruby... — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>
Who was it who said something like, "In Ruby,
[#39366] Override "initialize" — Stefan Mueller <flcl@...>
Hello
[#39376] Sockets problem — Matthew PATTISON <mfp@...>
Hi,
[#39391] some questions about rb_newobj() — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...>
In gc.c, I see:
Hi,
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
[#39394] ncurses, mingw32 — tony summerfelt <snowzone5@...>
i've been away from ruby for awhile, it was time to dust off the pickaxe book
RE: article about testers using Ruby.
Brian: See comments below... -----Original Message----- From: Brian Marick [mailto:marick@testing.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:45 PM To: ruby-talk ML Subject: RFC: article about testers using Ruby. I've written a first draft of an article with several ulterior motives. One is to keep exposing testers to Ruby. What are the other(s)? Would anyone like to comment on my first draft? Sure. I'm not assuming any programming background, so I'm simplifying or even distorting some truths in the interests of understanding. Hmmm. A strange way to go about teaching... but then again I'm odd: I'm the kind of guy who likes to align my understanding with the truth, however horrifying it may be. ;) For example, it seemed easier to pretend there's more of a difference between getters and setters and other kinds of methods than there really is. Why don't you just say: --- "Programmatically speaking, 'getters' (e.g., 'getValue()') and 'setters' (e.g., 'setValue()') are just plain old methods. They are so-called only by way of social convention to tell the user of a class that he or she has restricted access to certain private data. One may set private data only by using a 'setter' method (if provided), and one may acquire the current value of a certain private piece of data by calling its 'getter' method (if provided). "A setter must take a value of the correct type as its only input, and it has the option of ignoring your input completely if for some good reason it doesn't like it; a getter must return the current value of the correct type on demand. If one or both are not provided, it means you have no business mucking with that private data, by design it's intended to be the class's internal problem entirely (whether you like it or not). This, in a nutshell, is what programmer geeks and nutty professors refer to as 'encapsulation' -- controlled access to data intended to be private or internal to the class. "Getters and setters that you use or write yourself are supposed to be interfaces to the mysteries inside the black box, like buttons and digital displays on a telephone -- most people would freak if they saw the tangle of wires and circuits hidden underneath their sleek, fashionably colored (not to mention overpriced) designer cordless phones. To call a friend, you need know only how to dial their number. The hidden stuff inside the phone (most of which you never see and mercifully have no access to) handles all the gory details." --- Testers I talk to (and I do a lot of training in the area of automated testing) tend to get the point when I explain it that way. The ones that don't have no business in front of a computer keyboard, as keyboards tend to short out when exposed to large quantities of dripping drool. What I'm saying is: Testers really aren't as stupid as they and everybody else think they are. Well, some are. Then again, so are some developers I've met in my time. But most are not -- they just never trusted their own intelligence enough to really apply it on the job. Chalk it up to a bad childhood and a screwed up education system or something. Bottom Line: Don't talk down to reach the masses - it may make you feel smarter, but it won't help the ones that really want to learn make any more sense of this stuff. Just speak plainly and without pretense -- the folks who will appreciate your morsels of wisdom will rise to the occasion. And I refer to [0, 29, 123] as a "list", since that notion is more likely to be familiar than "array". Am I going too far? Gee... I guess I just don't see the big cliff there... I'm also using win32ole. In the article, I write a test for Word. I wish Microsoft would do that once in a while... ;) This is the first time I've used win32ole and only the second time I've talked programmatically to Word. Do you wan't the truth? It kinda shows... :( But practice makes perfect! (Or is that, 'perfect practice makes perfect'...? I forget.) ;) How's my explanation? Again, I simplified a bit, and I might plain misunderstand something. See embedded comments below... I'd need comments in about a week. I can supply a Word document. I should be able to provide PDF, but "print to PDF" has suddenly stopped working. Rebooting might fix it, but I suspect this NT machine knows I'm thinking of replacing it with a Mac. Trust me, your NT machine cannot and does not know this. :) ------------- Shunning the GUI [I don't like the title. Testers should shun NOTHING. They should have a zeal about finding new ways to break things that strikes fear in the hearts of developers (well, weak developers anyway).] Graphical user interfaces make test automation hard. [I disagree: they pose a particular set of challenges that serious automated test engineers need to know how to overcome, but they do not make automation 'hard' per se. Just tedious at times.] The problems are well-known. Specialized tools are required to drive the GUI [Specialized tools are required to do any kind of non-trivial testing -- just look at the large number of professional developer tools, ranging from debuggers, to profilers, to code coverage analyzers, etc.; does this mean it should not be done?] . Those tools are often confused by the common programming practice of inventing custom user interface controls. [The root cause of this problem vis a vis record/replay tools is the fact that the only way to hook a GUI object for this purpose is to register callbacks to various events associated with a given object class with the Windows event message system, and this requires knowing *how* to register callbacks to custom windowed objects, which most tools manage for you. There is no confusion per se on the part of the tool. Most professional tools, like MI WinRunner (or, for Unix, XRunner), allow you to register custom classes as you become aware of them and insofar as they behave more or less like analogous controls, they work fine. Other times more radical methods are needed, like writing custom object hooks using windows message cracking macros and other lower level techniques, and registering them with the tool. Most professional tools provide API's for this. The *only* objects that record/replay tools choke on (at least on Windows) are non-windowed (i.e., "graphical") controls. These are nearly impossible to hook in any reliable way, because windows cannot see the pictures inside them, no matter how much they may look like standard controls to users. For instance, Access and FoxPro use graphical controls instead of Windowed controls to minimize overhead. As a result, they are the bane of every record/replay tool on the market.] When they are used in the simplest way, the tools lead to fragile tests that tend to break en masse when the GUI changes. [Well, if the scripts aren't engineered to be reusable, modular, robust, then yes, they will be fragile. But usually some planning/design and scripting standards and best practices tend to stiffen those scripts against the elements pretty well.] Making the tests resistant to change requires elaborate and sometimes awkward testing frameworks. [No, just a little sound test engineering. There is (or should be) nothing awkward about having to think and plan a little bit before you dive into scripting a test suite.] Sometimes you must pay this price. Other times, there are alternatives. In this article, I'll show you one: testing through the program's scripting interface. [OK, I'll stop here to explain the enormous gap in your thinking. The assumption that using an application's scripting interface instead of its GUI sounds like a nice alternative to the real work of engineering real test suites with sophisticated record/replay tools against modern-day complex GUIs, but there is an enormous danger here: You assume that the script interfaces, particularly COM script interfaces, are flawless and complete. In reality, they are neither, especially during testing. At all events, you cannot assume that. And I'll take it a step further: The COM interface itself must be rigorously tested (and Lord knows Ruby is good for that!), and cannot be relied upon during testing to provide accurate, reliable, dependable test data above and beyond their own conformance to whatever requirements drove their development. Period. I do not trust that a COM method call to save a file is an adequate substitute for clicking on the "Save File" button and seeing if something other than "Save File" pops up. They are apples and oranges and the assumption that these two seemingly similar things (clicking "Save File" and scripting the "saveFile()" method) are in fact the same at the code level is naive.] My example will be testing Microsoft Word through the interface you'll often hear described as COM (Component Object Model) or OLE (Object Linking and Embedding). It's the interface that allows you to embed Excel spreadsheets in Word documents and vice versa. [Actually, OLE is a distinct technology built on top of the general-purpose COM architecture, as is Structured Storage, ADO, and a whole host of Microsoft technologies.] It's also the interface that allows you to write a Visual Basic or Perl program that uses Word to generate form letters. Since automated tests are programs, the same interface is dandy for testing. [Uhhh ... no. That interace itself needs to be tested quite separately from the GUI behavior, as I explained above, and is not a substitute for GUI testing.] This approach can be used with interfaces other than COM. For example, web services are becoming popular. These applications can be accessed from anywhere over the internet, and they usually use an interface called SOAP. [Why do you say this? SOAP is actually relatively new, and there are a bunch of other far more pervasive protocols out there... read up on it.] Tests of such an application would look quite like what you'll see below. [Testing web services directly via the internet protocol is not a bad point... it can be done independently of testing the web client GUI to test the core service functionality... but you still gotta test the GUI before you deploy it...] This article will give you four things: 1. A feel for what a scripting interface looks like. [The feeling: Warm, tingly, and at times disturbingly like petting a wet iguana...? ;) ] 2. An example of how to write tests against one. [Key distinction: Writing tests AGAINST a scripting interface, vs. Writing tests USING a scripting interface... two very different propositions.] 3. Some exposure to the scripting language I think is best for testers, Ruby. I assume no programming background. 4. An appreciation of the benefits of shunning the GUI. [Scratch this point... Rephrase in the positive: "An appreciation for the fact that there are often more ways to test an application's functionality, and more functionality to test, than you might otherwise think." Something like that. My motto: Shun nothing!!! Plan your attack! Then -- attack! ] ;) I hope this helped... BTW, I'm co-authoring the "Ruby Developer's Handbook" by Sams, which focuses on using Ruby as a toolsmith's langauge for general software engineering, including with particular attention to Ruby as a test script language. It should be out early next year, as we are in the early stages of writing it at this time. -- Bob Calco -- "Act always so as to increase the number of choices." -- Heinz von Foerster