[#18974] Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Perl6) — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

There is a thread about using .NET's CLR as a backend for Ruby, but how

17 messages 2001/08/01

[#19064] ANN: Code Amelioration Contest (presented by Ruby Conference 2001) — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

17 messages 2001/08/03
[#19184] Re: ANN: Code Amelioration Contest (presented by Ruby Conference 2001) — John Carter <john.carter@...> 2001/08/06

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, David Alan Black wrote:

[#19185] Re: ANN: Code Amelioration Contest (presented by Ruby Conference 2001) — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2001/08/06

Hello --

[#19186] Re: ANN: Code Amelioration Contest (presented by Ruby Conference 2001) — John Carter <john.carter@...> 2001/08/06

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, David Alan Black wrote:

[#19125] My 1st look @ ruby: No prototypes and problem with String#gsub — stesch@... (Stefan Scholl)

My first ruby program:

23 messages 2001/08/04

[#19192] Some remarks from a nembie in Ruby — Renaud HEBERT <renaud.hebert@...>

After having read the book "Programming Ruby: The Pragmatic Programmer's

38 messages 2001/08/06

[#19269] Re: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?) — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

In article <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>,

50 messages 2001/08/07
[#19349] Re: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?) — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...> 2001/08/08

[#19456] Re: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?) — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...> 2001/08/09

Ned Konz wrote:

[#19451] Re: Help! I'm still confused about threadin g in the ML — "Morris, Chris" <chris.morris@...>

> Is there an Outlook option to turn on In-Reply-To or References

14 messages 2001/08/09
[#19453] Re: Help! I'm still confused about threadin g in the ML — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2001/08/09

"Morris, Chris" <chris.morris@snelling.com> writes:

[#19506] the way class variables work — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Hello --

51 messages 2001/08/10
[#19511] Re: the way class variables work — Chris Uzdavinis <chris@...> 2001/08/11

David Alan Black <dblack@candle.superlink.net> writes:

[#19524] order and freedom in Ruby (was: Re: Re: the way class variables work) — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2001/08/11

Hello --

[#19517] Why not?: Assigning to self — furufuru@... (Ryo Furue)

Hi there,

55 messages 2001/08/11
[#19689] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> 2001/08/14

On 13 Aug 2001 20:59:54 -0700, furufuru@ccsr.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Ryo Furue)

[#19694] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 05:09 am, Ron Jeffries wrote:

[#19695] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — ts <decoux@...> 2001/08/14

>>>>> "N" == Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:

[#19696] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 07:51 am, you wrote:

[#19697] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — ts <decoux@...> 2001/08/14

>>>>> "N" == Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:

[#19700] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 08:27 am, you wrote:

[#19701] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — ts <decoux@...> 2001/08/14

>>>>> "N" == Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:

[#19703] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 09:05 am, Guy Decoux wrote:

[#19704] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — ts <decoux@...> 2001/08/14

>>>>> "N" == Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:

[#19708] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 09:27 am, you wrote:

[#19709] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — ts <decoux@...> 2001/08/14

>>>>> "N" == Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:

[#19713] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/14

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 09:45 am, you wrote:

[#19750] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2001/08/15

Hi,

[#19819] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — Ned Konz <ned@...> 2001/08/15

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 08:14 pm, matz wrote:

[#19852] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2001/08/16

Hi,

[#19857] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — "Florian G. Pflug" <fgp@...> 2001/08/16

On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:05:59AM +0900, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#19858] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2001/08/16

Hi,

[#19867] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self — "Pit Capitain" <pit@...> 2001/08/16

Just a followup at (my) current end of the thread:

[#19550] Forced garbage collection — Lars Christensen <larsch@...>

14 messages 2001/08/11
[#19562] Re: Forced garbage collection — "Nat Pryce" <nat.pryce@...13media.com> 2001/08/12

From: "Lars Christensen" <larsch@cs.auc.dk>

[#19551] /.ed again — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>

Ruy gets slasdotted again ;)

19 messages 2001/08/11

[#19650] Ruby Newbie mailing list — Michael Pence <mikepence@...>

Hello all.

14 messages 2001/08/13
[#19656] RE: Ruby Newbie mailing list — "Louis Brothers" <lcb134@...> 2001/08/13

We had a similar discussion on the OmniWeb Objective-C mailing list not to

[#19659] Re: Ruby Newbie mailing list — Michael Pence <mikepence@...> 2001/08/13

I appreciate your references to Objectionable-C ;-)

[#19685] Compiling Ruby with cygwin and Tk support — Manuel Zabelt <ng@...>

Hello!

13 messages 2001/08/14

[#19718] General (GUI/license) questions — Ryan Tarpine <rtarpine@...>

First: Kero commented in the description of his new Ruby Agenda program

18 messages 2001/08/14

[#19755] "new" returning nil: how to report the failure of object creation — furufuru@... (Ryo Furue)

Hi there,

14 messages 2001/08/15

[#19758] The GUI poll is in, and the results are surprising — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

40 messages 2001/08/15
[#19774] Re: The GUI poll is in, and the results are surprising — Lars Christensen <larsch@...> 2001/08/15

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#19784] Re: The GUI poll is in, and the results aresurprising — "Lyle Johnson" <ljohnson@...> 2001/08/15

> Please don't forget what Ruby is all about in this discussion! I think

[#19824] Ruby GUI — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

The concept of a new GUI is somewhat appealing,

16 messages 2001/08/15

[#20033] Ruby Article — Joshua Drake <jd.nospam@...>

Hello,

38 messages 2001/08/20

[#20127] Another Possible RCR - Wrappers via Mixins — Stephen White <spwhite@...>

The main difference between mix-ins and multiple inheritence is (to my understanding) that parent classes do not call child code, but mix-ins do.

15 messages 2001/08/22

[#20135] Bruce Eckel's criticism of Ruby — Ned Konz <ned@...>

Python.org links to http://www.mindview.net/Etc/notes.html#Ruby , saying

24 messages 2001/08/22

[#20183] ++ Operator — kamphausen@... (SKa)

Dear Community,

35 messages 2001/08/23
[#20234] Re: ++ Operator — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2001/08/24

matz@ruby-lang.org (Yukihiro Matsumoto) writes:

[#20236] Re: ++ Operator — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2001/08/24

Hi,

[#20209] In Ruby 0 is true but nil is false.. or how to shoot yourself?.. — Guillaume Cottenceau <gc@...>

I have a simple Audio-CD database (using CSV format). I was writing a

11 messages 2001/08/23

[#20254] File.readline(s) — Michael Husmann <michael.husmann@...>

I am reading a 55MB ASCII file by using File.readline(s) which takes on

14 messages 2001/08/24

[#20303] New Windows InstallShield version of Ruby — Andrew Hunt <andy@...>

19 messages 2001/08/24

[#20307] Backwards language — "Sean Middleditch" <elanthis@...>

Greetings,

30 messages 2001/08/24

[ruby-talk:19856] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self

From: "David Simmons" <pulsar@...>
Date: 2001-08-16 02:36:29 UTC
List: ruby-talk #19856
"Yukihiro Matsumoto" <matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote in message
news:997845654.140902.17914.nullmailer@ev.netlab.jp...
> Hi,
>
> In message "[ruby-talk:19711] Re: Why not?: Assigning to self"
>     on 01/08/15, Ned Konz <ned@bike-nomad.com> writes:
>
> |My discussion of archives was in a different context: that of changing
> |classes of objects. I see lots of problems with doing this in Ruby, which
is
> |why I have been pushing for become(), which would be a cleaner way to do
this
> |in Ruby (or in Smalltalk).
>
> I've once read the pater titled "become considered harmful", but I
> can't find it now.  Anyone know the pointer?  OOPSLA?

Recent posts [last three weeks] on comp.lang.smalltalk have been discussing
some issues surrounding swizzling operations like #become: and its family of
variants for use for implementing object-relational services and similar
proxy/delegate patterns.

generic
-------
    become:

VisualWorks
-----------
    oneWayBecome:

QKS Smalltalk
-------------
    basicBecome:
    basicExchangeIdentityWith:

It is generally considered to be a meta-object operation used specifically
to support things like proxy/delegate functionality. The other [older]
primary (and potentially dangerous use) is to break up object clusters to
assist gc-operations. In some modern Smalltalks where attention has been
given to avoiding persistent object references [better designed threading,
dependency and notification architectures, or modularization to eliminate
the need for snapshot images] this latter usage is effectively not
necessary.
---

The performance of the various messages varies by dialect [i.e., depends on
the gc architecture].

The "dangers" should be pretty apparent. The mechanism is very low level and
directly violates the principles of encapsulation. It is quite easy to
corrupt critical execution/data structures (even with conservative
protection such as in QKS Smalltalk's #become: implementation). It is also a
distinctly innefficient approach to delegation and proxy services.
---

I can speak authoritatively for SmallScript (QKS Smalltalk) since I wrote
it.

In summary, providing direct support for "managed" object services
eliminates the delegation/proxy rationale for using #become:.

In QKS Smalltalk the #become: operation is very fast and is "protected"
against making changes to literals and objects like classes and methods. The
#basicBecome: operations do not offer such validation/protection except for
some very critical elements. Both the #become: and #basicBecome: replace all
slot references to the receiver with the given argument [including
class/behavior info in the header]. As such, the operation requires sweeping
some or all the object space(s) much like a mark&sweep GC phase would [there
are various optimizations that can be intelligently applied to improve
performance based on incorporating knowledge of predominant object types and
inter-generational references (remembered sets)].

In QKS Smalltalk the #basicExchangeIdentityWith: operation takes a few
machine cycles and swaps out information in the object headers. It is
extremely fast, and is, in general, the more useful of the two operations. A
similar/related method is #basicBehavior: (and related methods) which allows
changing the behavior (incl class) of an object. The object will be
restructured as needed to preserve class structure invariant requirements.
This operation is very fast, the VM architecture was designed to ensure this
would be safe, and it is generally a very useful operation for many purposes
including building of lexer/parsers and pickling/linking systems.

In QKS Smalltalk (and SmallScript) the #become: operation is not used/needed
for delegate/proxy operations. The object model provides direct support for
a variety of delegation services which include a general mechanism known as
"managed" objects. An object which is being "managed" can request some or
all of its messages and read/write operations to be delegated/managed by
some other object. This feature can be turned on/off at will on a per/object
basis and takes a few machine instructions. It may, or may not, trigger
rejitting of affected compiled code [depending on VM policy settings].

--
-- Dave S. [ http://smallscript.net ] Agents Object System [AOS]
   Smalltalk for the AOS Platform and The Microsoft.NET Framework

>
> matz.



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