From: Jish Karoshi Date: 2001-04-17T16:59:06+09:00 Subject: [ruby-talk:13733] Re: methods and types Dave Thomas wrote: >This is not a thing that can be argued rationally. I was a strong- >typing advocate for years, and was nervous when I used languages such >as Smalltalk and Ruby. However, I now find Java a very frustrating >language to use, and find myself writing higher-quality code in >Ruby. In the end, the only way to find out is to try it for yourself >and see. Write some Ruby code, and wait until you experience that >a-ha! moment. Then write some more code until you start developing an >idiomatic style. Get comfortable with RubyUnit or Lapidary. Then take >on a largish project, and see what you thing. I am busily learning ruby, and I see some things that I like or I wouldn't bother asking questions. My problem is that I can't really do what you suggest about taking on a largish project and see what I think. I need to be reasonably sure that something is going to be workable before I commit resources to it. I have seen enough ruby already to agree with people here that ruby is probably more enjoyable to code in than java or c. But I can't make design decisions for projects based on whats more enjoyable. Well, somewhat I can, but you know what I mean. I want my team to start using ruby instead of perl for all the various odds and ends tasks that perl gets used for now. I have seen enough perl code to last me a lifetime. Good code in perl is fine, but there's something about bad code in perl thats worse than bad code in other languages, something very HP-Lovecraft- mad-servants-of-the-elder-gods-chattering-in-the-extradimensional- insect-language kind of bad that makes my head hurt when I have to read it. Which is why I started looking at ruby in the first place. I am just very curious to know what tools and what methods people use to successfully implement medium sized projects in ruby. More specifically, if we changed from java to ruby for a 20-30 man year project, what would we need to change in our design process and our other tools in order to end up on schedule with a robust system? Do tools even exist that can cope with ruby? We use rational for UML etc, and mercury for testing currently. This is why I asked about the argument types question in the first place, because it seems like it would force a change in the way you do things when you design and iterate, and I want to know what those changes are so I can make an informed choice. I know thats a really broad question, and I appreciate the time you and others have already taken to try to enlighten me. I guess what I am looking for in a nutshell is a pointer to the method that works best with ruby. Thanks, - jish _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com