[#45942] win32ole and excel — Martin Stannard <martin@...>

Hi,

19 messages 2002/08/01

[#45948] "gets" blocking process not thread (in Windows only) — Matt Pattison <mfp@...>

The problem with my program is that (in Windows) gets seems to block the entire

13 messages 2002/08/01

[#46030] IO.readlines is slow ? — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I really like the convenience of doing:

18 messages 2002/08/02

[#46072] How to Load Script from a C Extension? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

20 messages 2002/08/02

[#46107] embed or swig? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm working a C++ project for a contract I'm doing. Originally, the

21 messages 2002/08/03

[#46128] Assoc Class (Hash Pairs) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...>

i've been thinking about posting this as an RCR.

28 messages 2002/08/03

[#46136] Should this work? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

Should multiple assignment work for the

17 messages 2002/08/03

[#46192] Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...>

Imagine we have a class like ...

22 messages 2002/08/04
[#46198] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/04

On Sun, 2002-08-04 at 06:03, Harry Ohlsen wrote:

[#46207] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...> 2002/08/04

> > Can I write a method (of class Object or Kernel, perhaps) that will be

[#46226] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/08/04

On Sun, Aug 04, 2002 at 10:32:44PM +0900, Harry Ohlsen wrote:

[#46264] Dynamic creation of classes and methods — Tomasz Wegrzanowski <taw@...>

I want to create classes and methods on fly.

11 messages 2002/08/05

[#46341] More questions on automation from na誰ve Windows user. — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...>

Hi all,

15 messages 2002/08/05

[#46356] Coding challenge (on Ruby Garden) — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Hello --

47 messages 2002/08/06

[#46357] Compiling Ruby to Native Code? — web2ed@... (Edward Wilson)

Having looked at OCaml, after following a post to this group, one

20 messages 2002/08/06

[#46426] Is There an Inverse of 'rb_define_method'? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2002/08/06

[#46442] COM on Unix? — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...>

As part of my crusade to make Ruby an automation language I read up a little

12 messages 2002/08/06

[#46443] Dup and Clone — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

Could anyone kindly point out the difference between 'dup' and 'clone'?

17 messages 2002/08/06

[#46475] Named paramters again — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

26 messages 2002/08/07
[#46534] Re: Named paramters again — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/08/07

[#46537] RE: Named paramters again — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/07

[#46550] GUI's and the Rouge, Part IV — Kero van Gelder <kero@...>

Funny, two savannah accounts for the same objective:

12 messages 2002/08/07

[#46565] Re: Unicode in Ruby now? — "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak@...>

Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:41:18 +0900, Curt Sampson <cjs@cynic.net> pisze:

12 messages 2002/08/07

[#46732] ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...>

does anyone else find it annoying that local variable assignment is

56 messages 2002/08/09
[#46788] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — dblack@... 2002/08/10

Hi --

[#46791] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/10

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 22:50, dblack@candle.superlink.net wrote:

[#46794] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — dblack@... 2002/08/10

Hi --

[#46734] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2002/08/09

On Sat, Aug 10, 2002 at 03:00:28AM +0900, Tom Sawyer wrote:

[#46737] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/09

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 12:05, Paul Brannan wrote:

[#46739] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/08/09

Tom Sawyer <transami@transami.net> writes:

[#46741] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — GOTO Kentaro <gotoken@...> 2002/08/09

At Sat, 10 Aug 2002 03:44:45 +0900,

[#46748] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/08/09

GOTO Kentaro <gotoken@notwork.org> writes:

[#46753] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/09

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 13:30, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#46841] Ah, I'm finally back from Japan ... — Dossy <dossy@...>

Not like anyone cares (or noticed) but my two week stay in Japan

12 messages 2002/08/10

[#46875] To be a Module, or not to be... — Holden Glova <dsafari@...>

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12 messages 2002/08/11

[#46911] Choosing ruby? — Rhymes <raims@...>

27 messages 2002/08/11

[#46957] Handling forms on database driven websites — Philip Mak <pmak@...>

Ever since I learned Perl, Ruby and MySQL, I've built several database

10 messages 2002/08/12

[#47000] Primary Key Hash help — "Chris Morris" <chrismo@...>

I have a huge data file with rows like this:

17 messages 2002/08/12

[#47134] Data_Make_Struct Considered Dangerous? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

39 messages 2002/08/13

[#47212] Ruby Weekly News — Dave@...

21 messages 2002/08/14

[#47292] Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

I've been brooding again on the circularities

28 messages 2002/08/15
[#47342] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2002/08/15

----- Original Message -----

[#47346] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/15

Hi --

[#47365] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/08/15

[#47369] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/15

Hello --

[#47372] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/08/15

[#47377] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/16

Hi --

[#47344] eruby editor — "Kyle Wilson" <kyle.wilson@...>

Hello. I was wondering if anyone knows of a text editor which will

17 messages 2002/08/15

[#47440] Help with a segv in mod_ruby — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

14 messages 2002/08/16

[#47461] How do I dup file descriptors in ruby? (diverting STDERR) — "Richard A. Ryan" <ryan@...>

Hello,

12 messages 2002/08/16

[#47464] IDE vs. editor — Holden Glova <dsafari@...>

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43 messages 2002/08/16

[#47547] Re: What Ruby needs. — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I do not have any problem with item 1) on your wish list as long as I don't

13 messages 2002/08/18

[#47559] Ruby Bot — Giuseppe Bilotta <bilotta78@...>

Hello,

14 messages 2002/08/18

[#47643] thread control — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I am trying to write a ruby script (Ruby 1.7.2 mswin32) which does the

21 messages 2002/08/20

[#47695] What makes a "good" Ruby extension? — Tim Hunter <cyclists@...>

So I'm reading the "Comparing Gui Toolkits" wiki page

14 messages 2002/08/20

[#47749] What New Language After Ruby? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

To Andrew Hunt and David Thomas:

74 messages 2002/08/21
[#47754] Re: What New Language After Ruby? — Wilkes Joiner <boognish23@...> 2002/08/21

Although activity seems to have died down, here are some links

[#47817] A Repeat: New Language After Ruby? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

54 messages 2002/08/21
[#47820] RE: A Repeat: New Language After Ruby? — " JamesBritt" <james@...> 2002/08/21

[#47918] Win32 Scripting — Sean Middleditch <elanthis@...>

Hi,

13 messages 2002/08/22

[#48035] Why Ruby Uses Mark-and-Sweep GC? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

39 messages 2002/08/23

[#48062] Ruby and Judy — Joseph McDonald <joe@...>

29 messages 2002/08/23

[#48082] Distributed Object Container — junderdown@... (Jason Underdown)

Is anyone out there in the Ruby community working on an object

23 messages 2002/08/24
[#48185] Re: Distributed Object Container — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/08/26

----- Original Message -----

[#48223] Ruby Based App Server — junderdown@... (Jason Underdown)

I posted a similar question a few days ago, but didn't get any

21 messages 2002/08/26

[#48264] Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — itsnewsforme@... (M S)

A big complaint from people looking into Ruby is that they don't see

36 messages 2002/08/27
[#48292] Re: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/08/27

>>>>> "M" == M S <itsnewsforme@yahoo.ca> writes:

[#48296] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/27

Actually, it would be nice to have them online, but not necessarily

[#48336] Re: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/08/27

On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 09:39:32PM +0900, Rich Kilmer wrote:

[#48358] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

http://kt-www.jaist.ac.jp/~ttate/ruby/ruby-dl.html

[#48362] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/28

On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 19:32, Rich Kilmer wrote:

[#48367] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

You can just install it in another directory and then go to that

[#48369] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/28

uh, sorry, how do i get 1.7.2? i tried anonymous cvs but it said NO. did

[#48371] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usageforward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

Nightly CVS snapshot:

[#48274] ANN: RJudy-0.1 - Judy Arrays for Ruby — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...>

All,

17 messages 2002/08/27

[#48477] Newbie converting brain from perl — William Pietri <william-news-383910@...>

20 messages 2002/08/28

[#48544] Best GC for Ruby? — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

34 messages 2002/08/29

[#48573] FXRuby Threading Problem Solved? — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...>

All,

14 messages 2002/08/29

[#48584] suggestions to the Ruby community — stibbs <stibbs@...>

Hi, first i would like to state that i absolutely love Ruby more than any

85 messages 2002/08/29
[#48923] Re: suggestions to the Ruby community — <bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Sep.03.02@...> 2002/09/03

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[#48930] RE: suggestions to the Ruby community — " JamesBritt" <james@...> 2002/09/03

> >I was surprised just now to find that there is no absolute requirement

[#49017] Re: suggestions to the Ruby community — <bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Sep.04.02@...> 2002/09/04

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[#48657] ICFP Programming Contest — Alan Chen <alan@...>

http://icfpcontest.cse.ogi.edu/task.html

12 messages 2002/08/30

[#48705] Ruby aesthetics — vegai@...

Hello. I've been checking into python lately quite a lot, and I

192 messages 2002/08/31
[#49010] Re: Ruby aesthetics — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2002/09/04

----- Original Message -----

[#49100] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Paul Prescod <paulp@...> 2002/09/05

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Hal E. Fulton wrote:

[#49112] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

Hi,

[#49154] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Paul Prescod <paulp@...> 2002/09/05

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49161] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Christian Szegedy <szegedy@...> 2002/09/05

Paul Prescod wrote:

[#49173] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

Hi,

[#49183] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/05

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49189] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

I think we have communicated very well; I agree with all you said. May I

[#49191] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/05

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49272] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/06

Hi Matz,

[#49293] Re: Ruby aesthetics — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/09/06

Hi,

[#49312] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/06

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#49321] Re: Ruby aesthetics — dblack@... 2002/09/06

Hello --

Data_Make_Struct and ALLOC Considered Harmful?

From: billtj@... (Bill Tj)
Date: 2002-08-20 15:30:24 UTC
List: ruby-talk #47669
Hi,

This is a follow-up of the thread with title "Data_Make_Struct
Considered Dangerous?".  Rather than making the thread larger and
larger, I try to start discussing the issue with a fresh start.

All this discussion is using ruby -v: ruby 1.6.7 (2002-03-01)
[i686-linux].

Data_Make_Struct is defined in ruby.h as

#define Data_Make_Struct(klass,type,mark,free,sval) (\
    sval = ALLOC(type),\
    memset(sval, 0, sizeof(type)),\
    Data_Wrap_Struct(klass,mark,free,sval)\
)

As we can see, the sequence is first ALLOC() is called, and then the
memory is set to zero by using memset().  ALLOC() is just an alias of
xmalloc(), which is just an alias of ruby_xmalloc().  ruby_xmalloc()
is defined in gc.c as

void *
ruby_xmalloc(size)
    long size;
{
    void *mem;

    if (size < 0) {
	rb_raise(rb_eNoMemError, "negative allocation size (or too big)");
    }
    if (size == 0) size = 1;
    malloc_memories += size;

    if (malloc_memories > GC_MALLOC_LIMIT) {
	rb_gc();
    }
    RUBY_CRITICAL(mem = malloc(size));
    if (!mem) {
	rb_gc();
	RUBY_CRITICAL(mem = malloc(size));
	if (!mem) {
	    if (size >= 10 * 1024 * 1024) {
		rb_raise(rb_eNoMemError, "tried to allocate too big memory");
	    }
	    mem_error("failed to allocate memory");
	}
    }

    return mem;
}

As we can see, rb_gc() may be called before the memory is returned. 
rb_gc(), in turn, calls all the rb_gc_mark() functions.  Therefore,
one particular issue is:

"Unless the C programmer is very careful, when using ALLOC it is very
possible that the marking function is called before a memory space is
properly initialized".

Suppose we assume that the marking functions are really proper, i.e.,
they always check the state of each memory before rb_gc_mark is called
such as:

    if (ptr) rb_gc_mark (...);

Suppose also we have a struct such as

    typedef struct
    {
        struct_A *data1;
        struct_B *data2;
    } struct_C;

which is involved in some rb_gc_mark() because struct_C is part of
(but not direct) internal data of some class.  Now, the following code
may fail:

    ....
    ptr = ALLOC (struct_C);
    ptr->data1 = ALLOC (struct_A);    /* may fail here because of
rb_gc() */
    ptr->data2 = ALLOC (struct_B);

but the following code will never fail:

    ....
    ptr = SAFE_MALLOC (struct_C);
    ptr->data1 = SAFE_MALLOC (struct_A);
    ptr->data2 = SAFE_MALLOC (struct_B);

where SAFE_MALLOC is just a wrapper of malloc() that deals with
out-of-memory.  The only way to solve the ALLOC problem is to do
"double-initialization":

    ....
    ptr = ALLOC (struct_C);
    ptr->data1 = NULL;
    ptr->data2 = NULL;    /* or just use one memset when it is proper
*/
    ptr->data1 = ALLOC (struct_A);
    ....

We see that the initialization to zero by memset in Data_Make_Struct
does not really help here.  It only helps when struct_C is a direct
data part of some class, in which case it was created using

    obj = Data_Make_Struct (cClass, struct_C, ..., ..., ptr);

But when ptr is some other level deeper inside obj, the above problem
occurs.

Therefore, rather than dealing with this extra issue, why don't we
simply not use ALLOC()?  Yes, when used properly, nothing is harmful. 
But just like the GO TO statement, it creates a potential pitfall for
the unaware C programmer.  This stems from the fact that structured
programming was created to minimize the "jumping around" problem with,
for example, the GO TO statement.  But ALLOC(), with its rb_gc(), with
its rb_gc_mark(), follows some "jumping around" pattern too.

Not using ALLOC also has this benefit:  Let Ruby manage its own memory
and let the C part manage its own memory.  There is no need for the C
part to be involved in Ruby memory management.  (If really necessary,
the C part can call rb_gc() explicitly.)  There was a comment in the
previous thread that by not using ALLOC, the Ruby heuristic of when to
start the next GC might be way off; but isn't that this problem also
occurs when the C part is not there?  (For example, with
GC_MALLOC_LIMIT of 8000000, isn't that there is always a potential of
Ruby of wasting 7999999 bytes of memory, whether it is pure Ruby or a
mix of Ruby and C?  If the pure Ruby already has some mechanism of
getting rid the wasted 7999999 bytes, then there is no need for the C
part to interfere.)

Finally, any Ruby function that allocates some memory (such as
rb_str_new2) has the potential of invoking rb_gc_mark().  I don't see
any other way around this problem.  However, when we don't use
ALLOC(), we reduce the possibility of error.  I guess it is the same
as the GO TO statement.  When used properly, it is not dangerous; and
even when it is removed, a language like C is still "dangerous"
because of pointers.  The removal (or disuse) of the GO TO statement
does not make a language 100% safe, but it seems that now people do
not use GO TO very-very often anymore because people have understood
the issue.

Therefore, to summarize:

    1) Use malloc() (or some SAFE_MALLOC()) to allocate memory; don't
use ALLOC
    2) Because of 1), use Data_Wrap_Struct; don't use Data_Make_Struct
    3) Be aware that before calling any Ruby function that may
allocate memory (such as Data_Wrap_Struct() and rb_str_new2()), all
memory should be proper (double-initialization may be required)
    4) In the absence of 3), using malloc() a C programmer can proceed
as usual: allocate memory and then initialize it (no need for
double-initialization)

Regards,

Bill

A particular note to Guy: If you have not understood the issue : don't
response.
We have no need for a technical-less "it is stupid" comment.

============================================================================

Data_Make_Struct() is *not* dangerous. The goal of Data_Make_Struct()
is
 to call ALLOC(), initialize all members of the struct to zero then
call
 Data_Wrap_Struct()

 If you have not understood this : don't use it.



Guy Decoux

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