[#45942] win32ole and excel — Martin Stannard <martin@...>

Hi,

19 messages 2002/08/01

[#45948] "gets" blocking process not thread (in Windows only) — Matt Pattison <mfp@...>

The problem with my program is that (in Windows) gets seems to block the entire

13 messages 2002/08/01

[#46030] IO.readlines is slow ? — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I really like the convenience of doing:

18 messages 2002/08/02

[#46072] How to Load Script from a C Extension? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

20 messages 2002/08/02

[#46107] embed or swig? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm working a C++ project for a contract I'm doing. Originally, the

21 messages 2002/08/03

[#46128] Assoc Class (Hash Pairs) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...>

i've been thinking about posting this as an RCR.

28 messages 2002/08/03

[#46136] Should this work? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

Should multiple assignment work for the

17 messages 2002/08/03

[#46192] Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...>

Imagine we have a class like ...

22 messages 2002/08/04
[#46198] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/04

On Sun, 2002-08-04 at 06:03, Harry Ohlsen wrote:

[#46207] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...> 2002/08/04

> > Can I write a method (of class Object or Kernel, perhaps) that will be

[#46226] Re: Detecting when an instance variable is created/set — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/08/04

On Sun, Aug 04, 2002 at 10:32:44PM +0900, Harry Ohlsen wrote:

[#46264] Dynamic creation of classes and methods — Tomasz Wegrzanowski <taw@...>

I want to create classes and methods on fly.

11 messages 2002/08/05

[#46341] More questions on automation from na誰ve Windows user. — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...>

Hi all,

15 messages 2002/08/05

[#46356] Coding challenge (on Ruby Garden) — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Hello --

47 messages 2002/08/06

[#46357] Compiling Ruby to Native Code? — web2ed@... (Edward Wilson)

Having looked at OCaml, after following a post to this group, one

20 messages 2002/08/06

[#46426] Is There an Inverse of 'rb_define_method'? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2002/08/06

[#46442] COM on Unix? — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...>

As part of my crusade to make Ruby an automation language I read up a little

12 messages 2002/08/06

[#46443] Dup and Clone — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

Could anyone kindly point out the difference between 'dup' and 'clone'?

17 messages 2002/08/06

[#46475] Named paramters again — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

26 messages 2002/08/07
[#46534] Re: Named paramters again — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/08/07

[#46537] RE: Named paramters again — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/07

[#46550] GUI's and the Rouge, Part IV — Kero van Gelder <kero@...>

Funny, two savannah accounts for the same objective:

12 messages 2002/08/07

[#46565] Re: Unicode in Ruby now? — "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak@...>

Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:41:18 +0900, Curt Sampson <cjs@cynic.net> pisze:

12 messages 2002/08/07

[#46732] ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...>

does anyone else find it annoying that local variable assignment is

56 messages 2002/08/09
[#46788] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — dblack@... 2002/08/10

Hi --

[#46791] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/10

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 22:50, dblack@candle.superlink.net wrote:

[#46794] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — dblack@... 2002/08/10

Hi --

[#46734] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2002/08/09

On Sat, Aug 10, 2002 at 03:00:28AM +0900, Tom Sawyer wrote:

[#46737] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/09

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 12:05, Paul Brannan wrote:

[#46739] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/08/09

Tom Sawyer <transami@transami.net> writes:

[#46741] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — GOTO Kentaro <gotoken@...> 2002/08/09

At Sat, 10 Aug 2002 03:44:45 +0900,

[#46748] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/08/09

GOTO Kentaro <gotoken@notwork.org> writes:

[#46753] Re: ambiguity between local variable assignment and writter method — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/09

On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 13:30, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#46841] Ah, I'm finally back from Japan ... — Dossy <dossy@...>

Not like anyone cares (or noticed) but my two week stay in Japan

12 messages 2002/08/10

[#46875] To be a Module, or not to be... — Holden Glova <dsafari@...>

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12 messages 2002/08/11

[#46911] Choosing ruby? — Rhymes <raims@...>

27 messages 2002/08/11

[#46957] Handling forms on database driven websites — Philip Mak <pmak@...>

Ever since I learned Perl, Ruby and MySQL, I've built several database

10 messages 2002/08/12

[#47000] Primary Key Hash help — "Chris Morris" <chrismo@...>

I have a huge data file with rows like this:

17 messages 2002/08/12

[#47134] Data_Make_Struct Considered Dangerous? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

39 messages 2002/08/13

[#47212] Ruby Weekly News — Dave@...

21 messages 2002/08/14

[#47292] Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

I've been brooding again on the circularities

28 messages 2002/08/15
[#47342] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2002/08/15

----- Original Message -----

[#47346] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/15

Hi --

[#47365] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/08/15

[#47369] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/15

Hello --

[#47372] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/08/15

[#47377] Re: Thought question: Where does "new" come from? — dblack@... 2002/08/16

Hi --

[#47344] eruby editor — "Kyle Wilson" <kyle.wilson@...>

Hello. I was wondering if anyone knows of a text editor which will

17 messages 2002/08/15

[#47440] Help with a segv in mod_ruby — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

14 messages 2002/08/16

[#47461] How do I dup file descriptors in ruby? (diverting STDERR) — "Richard A. Ryan" <ryan@...>

Hello,

12 messages 2002/08/16

[#47464] IDE vs. editor — Holden Glova <dsafari@...>

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43 messages 2002/08/16

[#47547] Re: What Ruby needs. — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I do not have any problem with item 1) on your wish list as long as I don't

13 messages 2002/08/18

[#47559] Ruby Bot — Giuseppe Bilotta <bilotta78@...>

Hello,

14 messages 2002/08/18

[#47643] thread control — "Shashank Date" <ADATE@...>

I am trying to write a ruby script (Ruby 1.7.2 mswin32) which does the

21 messages 2002/08/20

[#47695] What makes a "good" Ruby extension? — Tim Hunter <cyclists@...>

So I'm reading the "Comparing Gui Toolkits" wiki page

14 messages 2002/08/20

[#47749] What New Language After Ruby? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

To Andrew Hunt and David Thomas:

74 messages 2002/08/21
[#47754] Re: What New Language After Ruby? — Wilkes Joiner <boognish23@...> 2002/08/21

Although activity seems to have died down, here are some links

[#47817] A Repeat: New Language After Ruby? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

54 messages 2002/08/21
[#47820] RE: A Repeat: New Language After Ruby? — " JamesBritt" <james@...> 2002/08/21

[#47918] Win32 Scripting — Sean Middleditch <elanthis@...>

Hi,

13 messages 2002/08/22

[#48035] Why Ruby Uses Mark-and-Sweep GC? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

39 messages 2002/08/23

[#48062] Ruby and Judy — Joseph McDonald <joe@...>

29 messages 2002/08/23

[#48082] Distributed Object Container — junderdown@... (Jason Underdown)

Is anyone out there in the Ruby community working on an object

23 messages 2002/08/24
[#48185] Re: Distributed Object Container — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/08/26

----- Original Message -----

[#48223] Ruby Based App Server — junderdown@... (Jason Underdown)

I posted a similar question a few days ago, but didn't get any

21 messages 2002/08/26

[#48264] Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — itsnewsforme@... (M S)

A big complaint from people looking into Ruby is that they don't see

36 messages 2002/08/27
[#48292] Re: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/08/27

>>>>> "M" == M S <itsnewsforme@yahoo.ca> writes:

[#48296] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/27

Actually, it would be nice to have them online, but not necessarily

[#48336] Re: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/08/27

On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 09:39:32PM +0900, Rich Kilmer wrote:

[#48358] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

http://kt-www.jaist.ac.jp/~ttate/ruby/ruby-dl.html

[#48362] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!! (it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/28

On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 19:32, Rich Kilmer wrote:

[#48367] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

You can just install it in another directory and then go to that

[#48369] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usage forward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — Tom Sawyer <transami@...> 2002/08/28

uh, sorry, how do i get 1.7.2? i tried anonymous cvs but it said NO. did

[#48371] RE: Ruby developers: help push RPKG development and usageforward!!(it is like CPAN.pm, only Ruby) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/08/28

Nightly CVS snapshot:

[#48274] ANN: RJudy-0.1 - Judy Arrays for Ruby — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...>

All,

17 messages 2002/08/27

[#48477] Newbie converting brain from perl — William Pietri <william-news-383910@...>

20 messages 2002/08/28

[#48544] Best GC for Ruby? — "Justin Johnson" <justinj@...>

34 messages 2002/08/29

[#48573] FXRuby Threading Problem Solved? — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...>

All,

14 messages 2002/08/29

[#48584] suggestions to the Ruby community — stibbs <stibbs@...>

Hi, first i would like to state that i absolutely love Ruby more than any

85 messages 2002/08/29
[#48923] Re: suggestions to the Ruby community — <bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Sep.03.02@...> 2002/09/03

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[#48930] RE: suggestions to the Ruby community — " JamesBritt" <james@...> 2002/09/03

> >I was surprised just now to find that there is no absolute requirement

[#49017] Re: suggestions to the Ruby community — <bbense+comp.lang.ruby.Sep.04.02@...> 2002/09/04

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[#48657] ICFP Programming Contest — Alan Chen <alan@...>

http://icfpcontest.cse.ogi.edu/task.html

12 messages 2002/08/30

[#48705] Ruby aesthetics — vegai@...

Hello. I've been checking into python lately quite a lot, and I

192 messages 2002/08/31
[#49010] Re: Ruby aesthetics — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2002/09/04

----- Original Message -----

[#49100] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Paul Prescod <paulp@...> 2002/09/05

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Hal E. Fulton wrote:

[#49112] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

Hi,

[#49154] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Paul Prescod <paulp@...> 2002/09/05

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49161] Re: Ruby aesthetics — Christian Szegedy <szegedy@...> 2002/09/05

Paul Prescod wrote:

[#49173] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

Hi,

[#49183] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/05

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49189] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/05

I think we have communicated very well; I agree with all you said. May I

[#49191] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/05

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

[#49272] Re: Ruby aesthetics — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/09/06

Hi Matz,

[#49293] Re: Ruby aesthetics — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/09/06

Hi,

[#49312] Re: Ruby aesthetics — <paul@...> 2002/09/06

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#49321] Re: Ruby aesthetics — dblack@... 2002/09/06

Hello --

Re: Unit testing is considered harmful

From: "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...>
Date: 2002-08-10 10:01:26 UTC
List: ruby-talk #46803
----- Original Message -----
From: <dblack@candle.superlink.net>


> Hi --
>
>
> > Coincidentally, I submitted a question about this--CodingChallenge0002
> > vs. unit tests--to the extreme-programming mailing list this morning.
> > I was commenting on my surprise that we kept adding unit tests after
> > the fact, and breaking existing solutions.  I referred people to the
> > wiki page.  What happened is people replied back with detailed
> > questions, specifically stating that the requirements were too vague
> > and asking for clarification. . . . Which is just what happened here on
> > ruby-talk when the challenge was first announced.  [[Not pointing
> > fingers!! I enjoyed the challenge and learned a lot from it.]]
>
> I guess ideally this kind of thing would be either on a wiki *or* on a
> mailing list, but not both.  It's probably the fault of my quirky
> habits: I liked the idea of putting the problem and the solutions on
> the wiki, but for whatever reason I tend to be more at home with
> email-based than wiki-based discussion.  Oh, and people did ask
> questions here on the list :-)

Spreading the requirements around is a problem, but in these circumstances
completely expected.  The reality is that if this were a serious problem facing
a paid developer, they would surely pinpoint requirements.  It was a difficult
problem to viaualise (in computer language, anyway; I've never had any problem
with the mathematics of 1-1 correspondance), so misunderstandings were rife,
and in short it wasn't a great experiment if one's aim was to test unit
testing.

>
> It certainly has been an interesting little case study.

Yes, I wish I had the time and sufficient understanding to submit an entry.
When's the next one?

>
> David

Comment on unit tests in general: you have to - to some extent - prove your
program correct, and put lots of sanity checks in the code (i.e. invariants);
but unit tests are *really* useful for just being able to repeat manual tests.
Not an insightful comment, but so long as you don't abuse them by relying on
them too much, they're great!

Oh, another comment.  Many applications are a lot more "practical" than the
textbook examples we always hear (and was repeated here with balancing trees or
some such).  These apps are IO-intensive, specific-calculation-intensive, or
whatever.  They don't usually fit the mould of rigorous requirements analysis,
proofs and invariants.  How I wish a book were written that broke this mould.
Suggestion, anyone?

Gavin

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