From: Conrad Schneiker <schneik@...>
Date: 2001-03-28T06:24:35+09:00
Subject: [ruby-talk:13250] Welcome to the 'comp.lang.tcl' newsgroup (Automatic mail) [LONG]

FYI. Some time ago, we had a discussion about whether to send an 
informative welcome note to first time posters to comp.lang.ruby. FWIW, I 
just happened across the note that I received when posting to 
comp.lang.tcl for the first time. It's an issue that we might want to 
revisit when newsgroup traffic gets to be much heavier. Meanwhile, for 
future reference, ....

========================================================================

Hello ******,

Welcome to the 'comp.lang.tcl' Usenet newsgroup.

This message is intended to inform you about various sources of
information answering many common questions about Tcl/Tk. It will not
be automatically emailed to you again, so be sure to store it
somewhere on your host. There is no need to reply to this message.

<a href="http://www.westend.com/~kupries/c.l.t.welcome.html">
The latest version of this message</a>.

---------------------------------------------------

Before posting a question to 'comp.lang.tcl', be sure to consult the
following resources on your own system and across the internet:

* The source distribution of Tcl/Tk comes with reference pages for all
  commands and API functions. If Tcl has been installed properly on
  your Unix system, you can access the reference pages using the 'man'
  command. Windows Tcl/Tk comes with a Windows help file.

  On Unix, some Tcl commands have the same name as existing Unix
  commands (i.e.: file, expr). To ensure that you receive the Tcl man
  page, you must force man to look in section 'n', the default man
  section for core Tcl/Tk commands (i.e.: man -s n file, man -S n file,
  or as is appropriate on your system).

  Another possibility is TkMan, a manpage viewer written in Tcl/Tk by
  Tom Phelps.

  <a href="http://tkman.sourceforge.net/">TkMan</a>
 
* A HTML'ized version of the Tcl/Tk man pages is available at

  <a href="http://dev.scriptics.com/man/">Ajuba solutions man pages</a>
 
* The Tcl/Tk FAQ answers many common questions, has a big list of
  books about or related to Tcl/Tk and tons of references to other
  works using Tcl/Tk. Pointers to FAQs covering special topics (like
  'Tcl on Windows') are part of it as well. If you are in search of
  specific extensions/applications start searching here or one of the
  archives mentioned later.

  <a href="http://www.purl.org/NET/Tcl-FAQ/">Tcl/Tk FAQ</a>, by Larry
  Virden (lvirden@cas.org).

* The official Tcl/Tk site on the net is at
  <a href="http://www.ajubasolutions.com/">Ajuba Solutions</a>.

  New releases of the Tcl and Tk source, as well as binary versions for
  some platforms, can be found here, together with information provided
  by the Tcl-team at Ajuba Solutions.

* Announcements of new core releases, external extensions,
  applications, etc. can be found in the newsgroup
  'comp.lang.tcl.announce'.

  This group is moderated, so if you want to post a message there,
  please send your request to the moderator
  (tcl-announce@mitchell.org).

  The newsgroup is archived on the internet at
  <a href="http://www.findmail.com/list/tcl_announce/">
  the announce archive</a>.

* D. R. Hipp maintains a list of individuals and/or companies who
  claim to have some expertise in Tcl/Tk programming and are willing to
  work for hire.

  <a href="http://www.hwaci.com/tclconsultants/">Tcl consultants</a>
 

Further online resources:

* The Tcl/Tk Consortium is a non-profit organization dedicated to the
  promotion of tcl. Among their offerings is Tcl-Blast!, a CD-ROM
  containing ready-to-use installations for several platforms. See
  their website for more.

  The consortium is dead and now has only a minimal web presence. The
  link is not dead though.

  <a href="http://www.tclconsortium.org">Tcl/Tk Consortium</a>
 
* John Ousterhout's company, Ajuba Solutions, now features a resource
  center containing information about tcl itself, extensions, books,
  FAQs, etc.

  <a href="http://dev.scriptics.com/resource">
  Ajuba Solutions resource center</a>
 
* NeoSoft Inc., an ISP, software developer, and consulting company
  specializing in Tcl support, maintains the official Tcl/Tk
  Contributed Sources Archive site, an extensive searchable archive of
  extensions and applications relating to Tcl.

  <a href="http://www.neosoft.com/tcl/">NeoSoft archive</a>.

* Another searchable database of Tcl software available around the
  internet is maintained by J.M. Ivler (ivler@i-xpress.com).

  <a href="http://www.wwinfo.com/tcl/">Tcl/Tk Resource pages</a>.

* The 'Tcl'ers Wiki' resource is unique among all else mentioned here
  because you, the reader are able to edit and expand its content. It
  is a collaborative environment for the creation of the resources you
  feel that you need them.

  <a href="http://purl.org/thecliff/tcl/wiki/">Tcl'ers Wiki</a>
 
* Next, here is a big set of extremely useful WWW pages relating to
  Tcl. Among them are assistance in resolving common linking problems
  when building Tcl, a list of frequently made mistakes, notes on
  migration to Tcl 8.0 and many more.

  <a 
href="http://starbase.neosoft.com/%7Eclaird/comp.lang.tcl/">Archive</a>,
  by Cameron Laird (claird@Starbase.neosoft.com)

  List of frequently made mistakes:
  <a 
href="http://starbase.neosoft.com/%7Eclaird/comp.lang.tcl/fmm.html">Mistakes</a>.

  Help for linking problems:
  <a 
href="http://starbase.neosoft.com/%7Eclaird/comp.unix.programmer/linking-unix.html">
  Unix Builds</a>.

* Numerous examples and links to other resources, collected by Mike
  Hopkirk (hops@x.co.uk).

  <a href="http://www.sco.com/Technology/tcl/Tcl.html">
  Examples and links</a>.

* Another site with many links to other resources.

  <a href="http://cuisung.unige.ch/TclTk.html">Yet more links</a>.

* And even more links.

  <a 
href="http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Programming_Languages/Tcl_Tk/">
  Tcl at Yahoo</a>.

  <a href="http://www.ensta.fr/internet/unix/tcl-tk/">
  Somewhere in France</a>.

* The Cetus site maintains link collections for various languages,
  including Tcl/Tk.

  <a href="http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_tcl_tk.html">Tcl/Tk at
  Cetus</a>
 
*
  <a href="ftp://ftp.ajubasolutions.com/pub/tcl/doc/tut.tar.Z">
  Tutorials written by John</a>
 
* Source code from the the article "A Tutorial Introduction to Tcl and
  Tk" by Graham Mark (gam@lanl.gov).

  <a href="ftp://ftp.ora.com/pub/examples/xresource/issue11/TclTk.tar.Z">
  Example code</a>.

* The Tcl Cookbook, a free Tcl/Tk tutorial. The document describes the
  use of Tcl 7.4 and Tk 4.0 across platforms. It is aimed at novice
  window-based interactive application developers and newcomers to
  Tcl/Tk.

  <a href="http://www.dci.clrc.ac.uk/Publications/Cookbook/index.html">
  The cookbook</a>.

* A computer aided instruction package covering all of the Tcl
  features available up to 7.6, and some of the 8.0 features. It is
  aimed at new users of Tcl with varying levels of computer expertise.
  It runs on W/95/NT, Unixes and Mac (the latter as of version 0.97 or
  higher).

  <a href="http://www.msen.com/~clif/TclTutor.html">The TclTutor</a>
 
* A series of Tcl examples of how to do things which are not
  necessarily obvious.

  <a href="http://www.kencorey.com/tcl/answers.html">Obtuse Tcl</a>.

* A tutorial explaining the usage of compiled Tcl extensions (like
  OraTcl, BLT, ...) in general.

  <a href="http://www.equi4.com/jcw/extuse.html">
  EXTension USagE tutorial</a>
 
* JO's new company, Ajuba Solutions, now provides lists of online
  tutorials and books about Tcl.

  <a href="http://dev.scriptics.com/resource/doc/start/">
  Ajuba Solutions resource center: Tutorials</a>
   <a href="http://dev.scriptics.com/resource/doc/books/">
  Ajuba Solutions resource center: Book-list</a>
 
* Another hub listing tcl tutorials is provided by Cameron Laird at

  <a 
href="http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.tcl/tcl_tutorials.html">Cameron's
  tutorial list</a>
 
* People Helping One Another Know Stuff (PHOAKS) WWW site. The idea is
  that as folks on the newsgroup refer to various web resources, they
  are indexed by software running at this site and added to the page.
  By going to the above page, one gets to look at a ranked series of
  favorite web pages.

  <a href="http://www.phoaks.com/comp/lang/tcl//index.html">Phoaks</a>.


General searching on the net:

* <a href="http://www.deja.com/">Deja(News)</a>.

  This company provides a searchable archive of all traffic on all
  existing newsgroups. If you are in search of information about some
  Tcl related topic and suspect it has been discussed previously, start
  searching here.

  <a href="http://www.deja.com/group/comp.lang.tcl">Deja:
  comp.lang.tcl</a>
   <a href="http://www.deja.com/group/comp.lang.tcl.announce">Deja:
  comp.lang.tcl.announce</a>
 
* There are many search engines on the WEB indexing URLs and allowing
  queries of the databases thus built. The most prominent of these are:

  <a href="http://www.altavista.digital.com/">AltaVista</a>.
  <a href="http://www.yahoo.com/">Yahoo</a>.
  <a href="http://www.webcrawler.com/">WebCrawler</a>.
  <a href="http://lycos.com/">Lycos</a>.
  <a href="http://www.excite.com/">Excite</a>.
  <a href="http://www.infoseek.com/">Infoseek</a>.
  <a href="http://www.google.com/">Google</a>.
  <a href="http://northernlight.com/">Northernlight</a>.
  <a href="http://www.hotbot.com/">HotBot</a>.
  <a href="http://www.directhit.com/">DirectHit</a>.
  <a href="http://www.metacrawler.com/">MetaCrawler</a>.
  <a href="http://www.raging.com">Raging</a>
   <a href="http://www.searchenginewatch.com/">
  Information about search engines in general</a>
 
  Less prominent, but specialized to all types of software including
  tcl are the resource centers below:

  <a href="http://www.sourceforge.net/">SourceForge</a>
   <a href="http://www.freshmeat.net/">FreshMeat</a>
 

---------------------------------------------------

So, you have exhausted the resources mentionend above, and your
question is still unanswered ?

Well, post your question to 'comp.lang.tcl' and numerous individuals
around the world will rally to help you. To help us in helping you
please consider the following before you start writing:

A more descriptive subject like 'Searching Rule-based interference
engine' or 'Problem with fileevent' will have a better chance of
drawing a response than a broadcast plea for 'Help!' or 'Newbie needs
help'.

We are just a bunch of engineers who want to get the most out of Tcl.
Because of that we are more concerned with what you are having
trouble with than how much experience you have.

In case of a problem with some code of yours send the code. We don't
ask for multi-megabyte sources, or confidential material, but just
the snippet exhibiting the faulty behaviour, or some condensed
example code that will focus attention immensively. Creating such an
excerpt will help you understand the error much better, perhaps well
enough to discover the solution for yourself, or at least you will
help us diagnose the problem. Trying to guess the reason for some
error without code is difficult at best, and impossible in the
average case. The usual responses are none, or requests for the code.

Another useful tip - give us some background of what you are trying
to do, along with your specific question. Sometimes the '''real'''
solution is a different approach to the problem!

See also this

<a href="http://freshmeat.net/news/2000/02/26/951627540.html">
essay about reporting bugs</a>
 
And now some more formal rulings:

---------------------------------------------------

Posting guidelines for 'comp.lang.tcl'

Language is english.

Source code: is ok, if small (around 100-200 lines). It is
             recommended to mark such posts with LONG.

Binaries: Well, usually these are NOT allowed. This includes MIME
          encoded source, especially as free ftp space IS available
          at Neosoft. Anyone wishing to share binaries with the Tcl
          community can upload them via the web or FTP to the Tcl
          Contributed Sources Archive (mentioned at the beginning of
          this message). To upload via the web (the method the people
          at Neosoft really want folks to use), go to the
          <a href="http://www.neosoft.com/tcl/">Tcl/Tk Contributed
          Sources Archive</a> and register yourself as a contributor.
          Follow the instructions on uploading. You can also upload
          to the Archive via FTP - the address is
          <a 
href="ftp.neosoft.com/pub/tcl/incoming">ftp.neosoft.com/pub/tcl/incoming</a>.
          Though FTP is quick and easy, the reason people are asked
          to use the web interface is that it provides better
          cataloging of the package, on the fly. Any questions about
          uploading to the Archive can be directed to the Tcl/Tk CSA
          Master (tcl-archive@neosoft.com). On the other hand there
          are things people ask and wait for, such as the reference
          guide. So, if such posts contain USEFUL information and are
          posted infrequently, people should not complain. Abuse of
          the good nature of the newsgroup policies will likely
          result in cancellation of postings. Nevertheless,
          cancelling of non-spam postings by someone other than their
          original poster is not permitted in comp.lang.tcl.

Ads: for Tcl related software, books, or even jobs are acceptable as
     long as they are in context to answering a question and are not
     of a form letter format and don't become too frequent. The same
     thing more than once a month is too frequent. Formal
     announcments should go to comp.lang.tcl.announce.

Job ads: The same as for ads (see above).

In both cases it is recommended to find a FAQ which would be
appropriate and have info about your offerings added, as well as to
make web pages that not only advertise but provide useful services to
the Tcl community.

Another thing: Most readers prefer that postings occur in plain text
English without a mirroring text/html attachment. This note is
especially important to folks installing a new version of Netscape,
the option causing this behaviour is easily forgotten.

And more: When replying to a posting, PLEASE be concise in the amount
of text that you include as reference. It is seldom necessary to
quote more than 6 lines of text. If someone wants more context than
that, Deja.com and other archives are certainly available. Reducing
the amount of text in your reply ensures that people actually see
your comments...

Enjoy,
                 the TclTeam
---------------------------------------------------
c.l.t. welcome message V 1.20, as of July 13, 2000.

=====================================================

Conrad Schneiker
(This note is unofficial and subject to improvement without notice.)