[#70464] ljust, rjust... — "Chris Pine" <nemo@...>

Just thought I would run these ideas by everyone:

11 messages 2003/05/01

[#70502] temporary redirection of stdout — Andrew Walrond <andrew@...>

I'm new to ruby, so forgive any obvious stupididity, but can anyone

20 messages 2003/05/02

[#70535] SWIG on Solaris problem — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

Hi folks.

14 messages 2003/05/02

[#70594] Why is PHP so popular? What can we learn from the PHP camp? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

....and what can we learn from PHP's rapid rise to success?

99 messages 2003/05/05
[#70641] Re: Why is PHP so popular? What can we learn from the PHP camp? — Andreas Schwarz <usenet@...> 2003/05/05

Aredridel wrote:

[#70652] A wishlist for a "Ruby Standard Library" — Aredridel <aredridel@...> 2003/05/05

A wishlsit for a "Ruby Standard Library":

[#70655] Re: A wishlist for a "Ruby Standard Library" — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/05

On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 07:39:54AM +0900, Aredridel wrote:

[#70673] Re: A wishlist for a "Ruby Standard Library" — Mark Wilson <mwilson13@...> 2003/05/06

[snipped many wonderful things.]

[#70759] Testing for a class existence — "Gennady" <gfb@...>

Does anybody know an easy way to test for a class/module existence in =

15 messages 2003/05/06

[#70770] capture output — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...>

I have seen much talking about this topic, but no working code!

68 messages 2003/05/06
[#70929] Re: IO.pipe + thread = hangs (was: Re: capture output) — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/05/08

[#71741] Named Pipes — Mark Firestone <nedry@...> 2003/05/19

What is the recommended procedure for using named pipes in Ruby. Does one

[#71745] Re: Named Pipes — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/19

On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 06:33:17PM +0900, Mark Firestone wrote:

[#70842] Symbiosis offer: trade Ruby for German :-) — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...>

17 messages 2003/05/07

[#70865] access a variables name? — "meinrad.recheis" <my.name.here@...>

is it possible to access the variable-name of an object?

14 messages 2003/05/07

[#70891] Syck 0.25 + YAML.rb -- Objects in plain-text — why the lucky stiff <ruby-talk@...>

..my faithful friends..

20 messages 2003/05/07

[#70919] petition for raa-install to be included in 1.8 — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

Similar to the YamlInRuby petition which has now closed.

14 messages 2003/05/08
[#70920] Re: petition for raa-install to be included in 1.8 — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2003/05/08

I just looked again, and remember why I don't know anything about

[#70921] Re: petition for raa-install to be included in 1.8 — why the lucky stiff <ruby-talk@...> 2003/05/08

You can find a tutorial on using raa-install (as well as its API) at:

[#70985] Can a global be a constant? — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

Hi

36 messages 2003/05/08
[#71001] Re: Can a global be a constant? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2003/05/08

----- Original Message -----

[#71003] Re: Can a global be a constant? — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2003/05/08

On Friday, 9 May 2003 at 8:23:52 +0900, Hal E. Fulton wrote:

[#71007] Re: Can a global be a constant? — dblack@... 2003/05/08

Hi --

[#71036] Re: Regexp: why does (re)* return only last repetition? — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...>

21 messages 2003/05/09
[#71209] Re: Regexp: why does (re)* return only last repetition? — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/05/12

[#71225] Re: Regexp: why does (re)* return only last repetition? — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/05/12

On Mon, 12 May 2003 17:39:19 +0900, Robert Klemme wrote:

[#71229] Re: Regexp: why does (re)* return only last repetition? — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/12

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:18:00PM +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#71266] Re: Regexp: why does (re)* return only last repetition? — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/05/12

On Mon, 12 May 2003 23:51:44 +0900, Brian Candler wrote:

[#71042] TCP Sockets — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...>

Hi there,

28 messages 2003/05/09
[#71089] Re: TCP Sockets — Tom Felker <tcfelker@...> 2003/05/09

On Fri, 2003-05-09 at 05:40, Dominik Werder wrote:

[#71543] Re: TCP Sockets — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...> 2003/05/16

>> How can I tell how many bytes can be read from an IO object without

[#71547] Re: TCP Sockets — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/16

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 05:14:17PM +0900, Dominik Werder wrote:

[#71550] Re: TCP Sockets — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...> 2003/05/16

my problem is not the http protocol itself (not at this time :) but the IO-

[#71551] Re: TCP Sockets — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/16

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 07:20:30PM +0900, Dominik Werder wrote:

[#71553] Re: TCP Sockets — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...> 2003/05/16

> Maybe, but threads are really the "ruby way" to solve this problem.

[#71557] Re: TCP Sockets — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/16

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 07:53:39PM +0900, Dominik Werder wrote:

[#71562] Re: TCP Sockets — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...> 2003/05/16

> That would mean mixing the binary streams in a non-deterministic way,

[#71107] RCR for child execution — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...>

Looking on RubyGarden it seems that the RCR process there is "resting", so

99 messages 2003/05/10
[#71122] Re: RCR for child execution — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...> 2003/05/10

On Sun, 11 May 2003 01:50:49 +0900, Brian Candler wrote:

[#71126] Re: RCR for child execution — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/05/10

On Sun, May 11, 2003 at 01:27:31AM +0900, Simon Strandgaard wrote:

[#71364] Re: RCR for child execution — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...> 2003/05/13

On Tue, 13 May 2003 21:11:08 +0000, ahoward wrote:

[#71385] Re: RCR for child execution — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2003/05/14

Hi,

[#71152] Is Rubygarden's wiki restricted to English? — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...>

20 messages 2003/05/11
[#71160] Re: Is Rubygarden's wiki restricted to English? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2003/05/11

----- Original Message -----

[#71165] Re: Is Rubygarden's wiki restricted to English? — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/05/11

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 12:40:26AM +0900, Hal E. Fulton wrote:

[#71189] efficiency advice needed — "meinrad.recheis" <my.name.here@...>

hi,

12 messages 2003/05/11

[#71297] State Pattern Implementation — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...>

22 messages 2003/05/13

[#71361] Objects VS Datastructures — Simon Vandemoortele <deliriousREMOVEUPPERCASETEXTTOREPLY@...>

19 messages 2003/05/13

[#71447] Embedding/GC/heap corruption problem — "Jan Bernhardt" <j.bernhardt@...>

Hi,

22 messages 2003/05/14

[#71488] Test::Unit sequencing — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...>

A question for more experienced Test::Unit users.

23 messages 2003/05/15
[#71492] Re: Test::Unit sequencing — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...> 2003/05/15

--- Brian Candler <B.Candler@pobox.com> wrote:

[#71508] Re: Test::Unit sequencing — ahoward <ahoward@...> 2003/05/15

On Thu, 15 May 2003, [iso-8859-1] Anders Bengtsson wrote:

[#71510] RCR: $INCLUDED global var — martindemello@... (Martin DeMello)

$INCLUDED = (__FILE__ != $0)

25 messages 2003/05/15
[#71515] Re: RCR: $INCLUDED global var — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2003/05/15

Hi,

[#71525] Re: RCR: $INCLUDED global var — ahoward <ahoward@...> 2003/05/15

On Fri, 16 May 2003, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#71520] public/protected/private syntax — Guillaume Marcais <guslist@...>

I tend to find the public/protected/private keywords in Ruby a little odd.

27 messages 2003/05/15
[#71540] Re: public/protected/private syntax — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/05/16

[#71573] Re: public/protected/private syntax — Guillaume Marcais <guillaume.marcais@...> 2003/05/16

On Friday 16 May 2003 03:38 am, you wrote:

[#71595] Re: public/protected/private syntax — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/05/16

On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:33:21 +0900, Guillaume Marcais wrote:

[#71560] gzip cgi compression — Dominik Werder <dwerder@...>

Is zlib compatible with HTTP-gzip-output-compression?

14 messages 2003/05/16

[#71636] select strange behavier — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...>

'select' is suppose to watch some file-descriptors and when an event

22 messages 2003/05/17

[#71673] An Object Going Out Of Scope — "vinita Papur" <gkapur@...>

A quick question. How can one discern when an object goes out of scope?

46 messages 2003/05/18
[#71678] Re: An Object Going Out Of Scope — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2003/05/18

[#71680] Re: An Object Going Out Of Scope — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/05/18

On Sun, May 18, 2003 at 06:08:43PM +0900, MikkelFJ wrote:

[#71681] ruby garbage collection — "Gaffer" <gaffer@...> 2003/05/18

i need this for a realtime game application which has embedded ruby -- after

[#71683] Re: ruby garbage collection — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/05/18

On Sun, May 18, 2003 at 08:35:11PM +0900, Gaffer wrote:

[#71685] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Gaffer" <gaffer@...> 2003/05/18

strange, i found the rb_gc call on my own and called that to good effect

[#71688] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...> 2003/05/18

On Sun, 18 May 2003 22:10:18 +0900, Gaffer wrote:

[#71689] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Gaffer" <gaffer@...> 2003/05/18

i think its actually the GC cleaning up matrix and vector classes (my own

[#71691] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...> 2003/05/18

On Sun, 18 May 2003 22:39:17 +0900, Gaffer wrote:

[#71692] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Gaffer" <gaffer@...> 2003/05/18

i'm pretty sure i've tracked down the cause, this is my first time embedding

[#71695] Re: ruby garbage collection — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...> 2003/05/18

On Sun, 18 May 2003 23:48:28 +0900, Gaffer wrote:

[#71948] How I'd like method-wrapping to work... — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

OK, I read Matz's blog entries as well as I could.

16 messages 2003/05/21

[#72030] why is "does" missing from this sub!-stitution? — Dave Oshel <dcoshel@...>

[~/Desktop] dave$ cat foobar.rb ; foobar.rb

19 messages 2003/05/22
[#72037] Re: why is "does" missing from this sub!-stitution? — Dave Oshel <dcoshel@...> 2003/05/22

In article <20030522202818.GA24497@student.ei.uni-stuttgart.de>,

[#72056] Naive CGI question — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

I'm betting this is either impossible

15 messages 2003/05/23

[#72134] Problem compiling extension on Solaris — "Tim Hunter" <cyclists@...>

I have an user who is trying to build RMagick on Solaris with Ruby 1.6.8.

22 messages 2003/05/25
[#72262] Re: Problem compiling extension on Solaris — Daniel Berger <djberge@...> 2003/05/27

[#72150] Binary Tree vs. Hash — Xiangrong Fang <xrfang@...>

Hi ruby fans,

47 messages 2003/05/26

[#72184] Project Directory Structure — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

Hi:

47 messages 2003/05/26
[#72218] Re: Project Directory Structure — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2003/05/26

[#72222] Re: Project Directory Structure — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2003/05/26

Thanks everyone for your input so far.

[#72244] Re: Project Directory Structure — Robert Feldt <feldt@...> 2003/05/27

On Tue, 27 May 2003, Jim Freeze wrote:

[#72260] Re: Project Directory Structure — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2003/05/27

On Tuesday, 27 May 2003 at 18:26:53 +0900, Robert Feldt wrote:

[#72265] Re: Project Directory Structure — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2003/05/27

Thanks for all the input. A description of the Project

[#72269] Re: Project Directory Structure — Robert Feldt <feldt@...> 2003/05/27

On Wed, 28 May 2003, Jim Freeze wrote:

[#72274] RCR: unpack/pack Bignum — Robert Feldt <feldt@...>

I'm sure this has been discussed before and maybe there are good reasons

27 messages 2003/05/27
[#72375] Re: RCR: unpack/pack Bignum — Robert Feldt <feldt@...> 2003/05/28

No one seems to be interested in this issue so I'll have to reply to

[#72381] Re: RCR: unpack/pack Bignum — nobu.nokada@... 2003/05/28

Hi,

[#72394] Re: RCR: unpack/pack Bignum — Robert Feldt <feldt@...> 2003/05/29

On Thu, 29 May 2003 nobu.nokada@softhome.net wrote:

[#72403] Re: RCR: unpack/pack Bignum — nobu.nokada@... 2003/05/29

Hi,

[#72600] What is BER compression? (was RCR: unpack/pack Bignum) — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2003/05/31

Is it documented anywhere, what this 'w' template is useful for?

[#72371] Windows Installer for Ruby 1.8.0 (CVS) — Andrew Hunt <andy@...>

Hi all,

16 messages 2003/05/28

[#72388] Array.extend versus instance.extend — "Simon Strandgaard" <0bz63fz3m1qt3001@...>

I want to install 'shift_until_kind_of' in the global Array class

18 messages 2003/05/29

[#72420] Metakit for Ruby - Would you want it? — bobx@... (Bob)

I have a gentleman in England who I have been talking with who is

23 messages 2003/05/29

[#72439] Iteration - last detection — "Orion Hunter" <orion2480@...>

Is there any built in functionality for iteration that will allow me to

41 messages 2003/05/29
[#72510] Re: Iteration - last detection — Carlos <angus@...> 2003/05/30

> Is there any built in functionality for iteration that will allow me to

[#72577] IF statement in ruby 1.8.0 (2003-05-26) [i386-mswin32] — "Shashank Date" <sdate@...>

Just when I thought that I had perfectly understood the IF statement in

14 messages 2003/05/31

Re: [OO interface design] Pass-by reference VS encapsulation ?

From: Sam Roberts <sroberts@...>
Date: 2003-05-01 14:43:08 UTC
List: ruby-talk #70459
Quoteing deliriousREMOVEUPPERCASETEXTTOREPLY@atchoo.be, on Thu, May 01, 2003 at 01:55:07AM +0900:
> I hope you will indulge this slightly (I hope) off-topic design question
> since it is not specific to ruby design.

I've run into this issue a bunch, in C and again in Ruby, when building
decoders for things like X.509 certificates, and vCards. It's
surprisingly hard to think through, I found. What I've done (and I'm not
claiming its the best way!), is massage my assumptions about the
requirements so that I solve just the problem I actually have, not all
the problems I can imagine might be possible to solve.

I hope this will pertinent, so I'll describe what i did in various
circumstances. It's a little rambly, but I have lots of thoughts, and
no time to edit.

** X.509 certs - I made them immutable, essentially. When you decode,
you do a DecodeBegin(), get a decode context, and it is read-only. This
makes sense, because:

 - you can't change anything in a cert without invalidating the
   signature!
 - its rare to want to make a new cert from an old one, I.e, to change
   it a little and resign it

Creating a cert is a different process, you do a EncodeBegin(), and
start adding the things you want in the cert, and when you're done,
call End(), and it gives you the binary DER encoding for the cert.

We began the design process with the idea that we would just have
a Certificate object, and it would be mutable, and you could create
one from the binary encoding, then change it, then encode it again.
This turned out to be hard, in lots of ways, so we rethought it,
and realized the model was not-right, it sounded nice and OOy, and
academic, but really, certificate encoding and decoding are very seperate
processes, not intermixed (usually) in the code. CAs encode. Everybody
else just decodes! The objects should be different (Dave's comment
about it being the same object only if the data AND the operations
are identical applies here).

** XML - I didn't write this, but look at REXML (I don't know it well,
so hopefully I'm not wrong about this!). What REXML appears to do is
decode XML into an object hierarchy. You can then change anything (?) in
the hierarchy (add elements, remove, change them). Then you reencode
from the doc element route, and it traverses the hierarchy, reencoding
everything.

Imagine if you had to do element.get_mutable_element() to get a mutable
element from the tree? It would be hugely painful! And you actually want
to modify some things inplace, not get a mutable version of a whole
document, or a sub-tree of the document.

The approach of REXML is that you can't make a bad XML element, they are
all valid XML elements, so the containing document doesn't need any
control over the parts, the parts are all valid XML.

---> This is one approach for your Contact. Abandon, your idea of having
the AddressBook enforce some kind of conditions. Any condition you name,
I think I could argue that its too limiting! Your example of no
duplicate names certainly is. Looked at another way, why should one
Contact be coupled to ANY other contact? There may be things that a
Contact will not allow (such as setting the name to nil, for example),
but if its a good contact, why would there be some state in the
AddressBook that causes my Contact to not be a valid member of it? Why
even disallow duplicates? What's a duplicate? There can be two Tom Jones
living in the same house, with the same phone number!

In REXML's case, imagine that a REXML document was validating, that it
had a DTD, and wouldn't allow you to add an element of a particular tag
in a place that the DTD didn't allow. Ouch! That's a hard problem, and
it doesn't try to solve it. I think it would be pretty hard. Every
modification to an element would have to check the DTD to make sure its
a valid modification.

** vCard - I recently wrote a vCard decoder/encoder. I wanted a single
object (I didn't want to split encoding and decoding), because a vCard
is a contact, and people change contacts. I also wanted to, as much
as possible, preserve the original encoding. This is because reencoding
wire formats is a BAD idea, it usually leads to the telephone game,
where one person whispers in someones ear, who whispers in another,
and what comes out isn't what goes in. In theory, if everybody
does it perfectly, it works, but assuming perfection is a fast route to
failure. The PKI and email worlds are full of bugs and interoperability
problems caused by reencoding. Anhow, that means that I didn't want
to just decode to a hierarchy of objects, allow them to be changed,
and then during reencoding walk the tree and reencode everything. I only
want to reencode pieces that are new, or have been changed.

Background: a vCard is decoded internally into and array of objects,
where the object contains a hash of paramaters, where each paramater has
an array of values (a email address can have a type=home,internet,pref,
for example).

card
  original String
  lines[]
     Line { params{ 'name' => [ value1, value2, ..] }, other things...

I wanted people to be able to change a vCard. That meant changing
anything, and if they changed a Line, the Card needed to know, so that
it would know it had to reencode itself, otherwise it would leave the
original encoding unchanged. I implemened the params, for example, as a
hash mapping String to an Array. How would the Card know that a Line
that it had returned as a result of search was changed? How would the
Line know that a piece of its parmas Hash had changed? And some of the
params effect the contents of a line - if you add a param that say the
enoding is base-64, the line's value has to be changed to base-64.

Approach 1:

  Don't return Ruby base types like a Hash of String=>Array, write my
  own types, that all could have Observers, and that would notify there
  containing objects when they were changed. I could (and would) have
  done this, and it would have worked fine. But it would have been a lot
  of work, and I'm using Ruby to do less work, not more! I don't want to
  build wrappers for Array and Hash!

--> Another post mentioned a variant of this idea for a Contact, where
a Contact is some kind of Facade, and all requests made to it are
forwarded to the AddressBook, which has enough information to say
whether it is valid.

Approach 2:

  Change my assumptions. I made a Line immutable. You can add a Line,
  you can delete a Line, you can find a Line, you can create a new Line,
  but you can't modify a Line. If you want to change a Line, you have to
  make a new Line and add it to the Card, and delete the old Line from
  the card. Now creation happens in one way, and during the creation of a
  new Line I can apply all the self-consistency tests (encoding
  specified once, if the encoding is base-64, encode the value as
  base-64, etc, etc.). Adding also happens in one place, and I can check
  vCard consistency there (no adding of a Line saying BEGIN:vCard into
  the middle of a vCard!).

  So, my implementation is simpler, faster to write, and thus less buggy
  (I hope), and easier to maintain. Is it as amzing as it could have
  been? No, but I don't have 3 months to work on amazing... And its
  pretty easy to do the thing that need to be done.


--> A variant of this approach for you: Have a AddressBook.find that returns
a Contact that is a duplicate of the Contact it has internally. Allow the
Contact to be changed, but since this is a stand-alone object, it
doesn't affect the AddressBook's contact entry. Nothing is saved until
you do a AddressBook.save(contact). The AddressBook could then do
any validation it wanted to in the save, rather than every single change
you make to a Contact needing to be validated.




I think variants of this problem show up all over the place, and have a
lot of different solutions and approaches, its really interesting to
hear people talking about it!

Sam


In This Thread