[#52047] ruby-talk separation, part II — " JamesBritt" <james@...>

32 messages 2002/10/01
[#52099] Re: ruby-talk separation, part II — Holden Glova <dsafari@...> 2002/10/01

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[#52111] Re: ruby-talk separation, part II — "Bulat Ziganshin" <bulatz@...> 2002/10/01

[#52118] Re: ruby-talk separation, part II — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2002/10/01

On Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 09:03:44PM +0900, Bulat Ziganshin wrote:

[#52167] Re: ruby-talk separation, part II — Sean Chittenden <sean@...> 2002/10/01

FreeBSD's got a decent setup. Few additions to the list here:

[#52245] Compiling stuff under Windows: list of problems — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...>

I don't want my tortuous experience of trying to get things working under this

13 messages 2002/10/02

[#52259] bugs — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>

Hi!

26 messages 2002/10/02
[#52261] Re: bugs — nobu.nokada@... 2002/10/02

Hi,

[#52269] Re: bugs — "Stathy G. Touloumis" <stathy.touloumis@...> 2002/10/02

[#52300] Can soneone tell me what I'm doing wrong... — Jeremy Gregorio <gunvalk@...>

I'm trying to write a little script to rename my mp3s I started with this:

15 messages 2002/10/02

[#52391] CRuby (Was: R) — Nikodemus Siivola <tsiivola@...>

CRuby = subset of Ruby + typed methods + compiler to C

28 messages 2002/10/03
[#52395] Re: CRuby (Was: R) — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...> 2002/10/03

Nikodemus Siivola wrote:

[#52400] Re: CRuby (Was: R) — Michael Campbell <michael_s_campbell@...> 2002/10/03

[#52402] Re: CRuby (Was: R) — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...> 2002/10/03

Michael Campbell wrote:

[#52436] Specifying local and external block parameters (that old chestnut) — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...>

I've cannibalised discussion from the "Bugs" thread. I hope it is a service to

49 messages 2002/10/04
[#52440] Re: Specifying local and external block parameters (that old chestnut) — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/10/04

Hi,

[#52610] Re: Specifying local and external block parameters (that old chestnut) — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/10/06

[#52612] Re: Specifying local and external block parameters (that old chestnut) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/10/06

>>>>> "M" == MikkelFJ <mikkelfj-anti-spam@bigfoot.com> writes:

[#52557] Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

Hi:

27 messages 2002/10/05
[#52598] Re: Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2002/10/06

[#52600] Re: Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2002/10/06

On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 08:50:48PM +0900, MikkelFJ wrote:

[#52601] Re: Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — MoonWolf <moonwolf@...> 2002/10/06

> How do I configure mod_ruby to run with a cached script?

[#52628] Re: Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2002/10/06

Ok, here is how I understand this.

[#52636] Re: Speed of Ruby/modruby vs PHP — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2002/10/06

On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 05:07:25PM -0400, Jim Freeze wrote:

[#52581] Platform again — Friedrich Dominicus <frido@...>

Well I ask again. On what platforms are you using ruby most of the

36 messages 2002/10/06

[#52602] Another take on ensuring right args to methods — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>

11 messages 2002/10/06

[#52653] webforms — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>

Hi!

19 messages 2002/10/07

[#52669] Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know — billtj@... (Bill Tj)

Hi,

59 messages 2002/10/07
[#52805] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know — "Bulat Ziganshin" <bulatz@...> 2002/10/09

Hello Bill,

[#52982] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...> 2002/10/11

>3) 'x+=b', 'x*=b' and other assignment operators is internally translated

[#52727] block vars (some theory) — "Bulat Ziganshin" <bulatz@...>

Hello all,

37 messages 2002/10/08
[#52728] Re: block vars (some theory) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/10/08

>>>>> "B" == Bulat Ziganshin <bulatz@integ.ru> writes:

[#52806] strange Hash default behaviour — John Tromp <tromp@...>

I wrote a ruby program to read a list of graph edges and produce

16 messages 2002/10/09

[#52823] CGI sessions without cookies? — Stefan Scholl <stefan.scholl@...>

I haven't tried sessions, yet. But I'm curious if you can work

17 messages 2002/10/09

[#52848] Polymorphism, Isomorphism — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

Consider this a bit of public pondering...

21 messages 2002/10/09

[#53045] Sorting — warren@... (Warren Brian Noronha)

dear developer,

31 messages 2002/10/12
[#53048] Re: Sorting — dblack@... 2002/10/12

Hello --

[#53082] Re: Sorting — "Mike Campbell" <michael_s_campbell@...> 2002/10/13

> I think almost anything is a better name than CRAN, as that (to me)

[#53083] Re: Sorting — dblack@... 2002/10/13

Hello --

[#53093] Re: Sorting — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/10/13

[#53109] Re: Sorting — "Mike Campbell" <michael_s_campbell@...> 2002/10/13

> Just a thought: why *not* copy CPAN? It's pretty good, isn't it?

[#53183] final in ruby — "Kontra, Gergely" <kgergely@...>

Hi!

21 messages 2002/10/14

[#53230] Please check my algorithm — Vincent Foley <vinfoley@...>

Hi, I found a nice programming challenge:

12 messages 2002/10/14

[#53278] ruby-dev summary 18458-18504 — TAKAHASHI Masayoshi <maki@...>

Hi all,

16 messages 2002/10/15

[#53285] Psyco — Travis Whitton <whitton@...>

There's an interesting article on IBM developerWorks about a new program

18 messages 2002/10/16

[#53297] Interfaces in Ruby — web2ed@... (Edward Wilson)

Is there a way to write/inforce interfaces in Ruby like one can using

44 messages 2002/10/16
[#53300] Re: Interfaces in Ruby — Chris Gehlker <canyonrat@...> 2002/10/16

[#53334] Re: Interfaces in Ruby — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2002/10/16

On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 01:30:04PM +0900, Chris Gehlker wrote:

[#53409] Re: Interfaces in Ruby — web2ed@... (Edward Wilson) 2002/10/17

>http://rm-f.net/~cout/code/ruby/treasures/RubyTreasures-0.3/lib/hacks/interface.rb.html

[#53470] Re: Interfaces in Ruby — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2002/10/17

On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:25:57PM +0900, Edward Wilson wrote:

[#53514] Re: Interfaces in Ruby — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/10/18

On Fri, Oct 18, 2002 at 12:16:30AM +0900, Paul Brannan wrote:

[#53359] Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

29 messages 2002/10/16
[#53774] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2002/10/22

----- Original Message -----

[#53556] Help wanted with an experimental FAQ facility — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

24 messages 2002/10/18

[#53626] XMLParser, NQXML, REXML, ... — Armin Roehrl <armin@...>

Hi XML-freaks,

23 messages 2002/10/20
[#53897] Re: XMLParser, NQXML, REXML, ... — Sean Chittenden <sean@...> 2002/10/23

> Hi XML-freaks,

[#53902] Ruby.bah! (was Re: XMLParser, NQXML... and also RAA.succ) — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/10/23

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:01:59 +0900, Sean Chittenden wrote:

[#53904] Re: Ruby.bah! (was Re: XMLParser, NQXML... and also RAA.succ) — Sean Chittenden <sean@...> 2002/10/23

> > Markus and I are working on rubydoc which is now able to

[#53911] Re: Ruby.bah! (was Re: XMLParser, NQXML... and also RAA.succ) — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/10/23

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:07:46 +0900, Sean Chittenden wrote:

[#53652] RAA.succ? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I hope there will be some discussion of RAA.succ (or is it RAA.next) at

78 messages 2002/10/21
[#53654] Re: RAA.succ? — nobu.nokada@... 2002/10/21

Hi,

[#53669] Re: RAA.succ? — "NAKAMURA, Hiroshi" <nahi@...> 2002/10/21

Hi,

[#54022] RAA replaced — "NAKAMURA, Hiroshi" <nahi@...> 2002/10/24

Hi,

[#53914] Re: RAA.succ? (rpkg vs rubynet) — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) 2002/10/23

In article <20021023041621.GC48080@perrin.int.nxad.com>,

[#53688] functional Ruby equiv to this perl snippet — bobx@... (Bob)

# parses a text file looking for server names and ignoring lines

29 messages 2002/10/21
[#53694] Re: functional Ruby equiv to this perl snippet — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/10/21

def load_server_list

[#53696] Re: functional Ruby equiv to this perl snippet — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/10/21

I realised that my first test wasn't good for non-empty but blank

[#53718] Re: functional Ruby equiv to this perl snippet — "Bob X" <bobx@...> 2002/10/21

"Austin Ziegler" <austin@halostatue.ca> wrote in message

[#53703] rb_gc_register_address problem — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...>

We ran into a problem today with the garbage collector (caused by our

28 messages 2002/10/21

[#53771] Perl multiple match RE in Ruby? — michael libby <x@...>

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14 messages 2002/10/22

[#53865] XMLRPC and IP authentication — Daniel Berger <djberge@...>

Hi all,

13 messages 2002/10/22

[#53884] SQLite — "Bob X" <bobx@...>

Anyone working on a Ruby interface for SQLite?

109 messages 2002/10/23
[#53894] Re: SQLite — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/10/23

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:38:31 +0900, Bob X wrote:

[#54714] Thoughts on Ruby — Enric Lafont <enric@1smart.com> 2002/11/03

Hi all,

[#54724] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Albert Wagner <alwagner@...> 2002/11/03

On Saturday 02 November 2002 7:57 pm, Enric Lafont wrote:

[#54725] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/11/03

On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:57:29 +0900, Enric Lafont wrote:

[#54784] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Enric Lafont <enric@1smart.com> 2002/11/03

Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#54802] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/11/03

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:44:46 +0900, Enric Lafont wrote:

[#54826] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair@...> 2002/11/04

From: "Enric Lafont" <enric@1smart.com>

[#54903] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2002/11/05

On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:02:12PM +0900, Gavin Sinclair wrote:

[#54920] Re: Thoughts on Ruby — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2002/11/05

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:18:47 +0900, Brian Candler wrote:

[#54927] Re: Thoughts on Ruby lack of IDE — Brad Cox <bcox@...> 2002/11/05

It is a sign of my hybrid Objective-C background, no doubt, but I

[#54929] Re: Thoughts on Ruby lack of IDE — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/11/05

Brad Cox wrote:

[#55322] FreeRIDE and FUI ?? (was: Re: Thoughts on Ruby lack of IDE) — "Rich" <rich@...> 2002/11/08

> > >

[#55346] Re: FreeRIDE and FUI ?? (was: Re: Thoughts on Ruby lack of IDE) — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...> 2002/11/09

> -----Original Message-----

[#53953] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — "Mills Thomas (app1tam)" <app1tam@...>

But why does it really, REALLY mean that? Was there a reason for doing

13 messages 2002/10/23

[#53957] NODE tree introspection — Simon Cozens <simon@...>

13 messages 2002/10/23

[#53983] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — "Mills Thomas (app1tam)" <app1tam@...>

Actually, the way you describe '+=' makes sense to me. It is what I would

17 messages 2002/10/23
[#54001] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/10/23

Hi,

[#54012] Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (10/16/02) — dblack@... 2002/10/24

Hi --

[#54111] How come true, false don't support <=> (comparison) operator? — cilibrar@... (Rudi Cilibrasi)

I am wondering if there is a good reason why Ruby does not by default

24 messages 2002/10/25
[#54112] Re: How come true, false don't support <=> (comparison) operator? — dblack@... 2002/10/25

Hello --

[#54139] Re: How come true, false don't support <=> (comparison) operator? — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson) 2002/10/25

In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210250754010.2650-100000@candle.superlink.net>,

[#54156] Re: How come true, false don't support <=> (comparison) operator? — dblack@... 2002/10/25

Hi --

[#54239] Snippet request: Ruby Web Server written in under an hour — Phlip <phlipcpp@...>

Rubies:

37 messages 2002/10/28
[#54328] Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server — Phlip <phlipcpp@...> 2002/10/29

Rubies:

[#54339] method-call style (was Re: Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server) — dblack@... 2002/10/29

Hi --

[#54517] Re: method-call style (was Re: Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server) — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/10/30

Bulat Ziganshin <bulatz@integ.ru> wrote:

[#54519] Re: method-call style (was Re: Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server) — dblack@... 2002/10/30

Hi --

[#54525] Re: method-call style (was Re: Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server) — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...> 2002/10/30

dblack@candle.superlink.net wrote:

[#54527] Re: method-call style (was Re: Snippet: Tiny Featureless Ruby Web Server) — dblack@... 2002/10/30

Hi --

[#54280] exerb & fox-problem; converting gui-script to .exe on windows — Armin Roehrl <armin@...>

Hi,

12 messages 2002/10/28

[#54354] good link to read as we contemplate RAA, RAA.succ, et al — Pat Eyler <pate@...>

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/2225

28 messages 2002/10/29
[#54356] Re: good link to read as we contemplate RAA, RAA.succ, et al — dblack@... 2002/10/29

Hi --

[#54385] Re: good link to read as we contemplate RAA, RAA.succ, et al — " JamesBritt" <james@...> 2002/10/29

> Interesting. Simon (hi Simon!) is probably right that "Definitive

[#54421] want to meet Microsoft .NET guy? — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto)

Hi,

17 messages 2002/10/30

[#54449] feature idea: custom literals — loats205@... (loats205)

wouldn't it be cool if you could define custom literal representations for your

30 messages 2002/10/30
[#54459] Re: feature idea: custom literals — Peter Hickman <peter@...> 2002/10/30

loats205 wrote:

[#54476] Re: feature idea: custom literals — Nikodemus Siivola <tsiivola@...> 2002/10/30

Re: announce@ == less email (FAQ item?)

From: dblack@...
Date: 2002-10-01 04:01:12 UTC
List: ruby-talk #52063
Hi --

On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Inferring from people's response, I realize that this subject is rather
> controversial.  But if we can think positively just for a moment, all the
> discussions can also be viewed for the goodness of Ruby itself.
>
> I don't think the intention is ever to cannibalize or destroy Ruby at
> all.  It is more to give Ruby some challenges, and if it is viewed that
> the current Ruby can answer these challenges well, then we just move
> on.

But consider:

1. What about the challenges that Ruby poses to programmers, in the
ways they think about languages?  Is the burden entirely on the
language?

2. What is "well"?  Matz has said over and over that he makes
trade-offs and compromises, quite knowingly.  That means that Ruby
will probably never do certain things "well", in some absolute sense.
But Ruby as a totality does things remarkably well.

> It is good if Ruby stays as the current Ruby.  However, language
> technology also continues to progress.  When I first learned Tcl, I was
> very excited about it.  But then I found Perl was easier and more
> powerful.  And then I found Python was easier and as powerful.  And then I
> found that Ruby was more consistent, as easy, and as powerful.  Based on
> my personal experience, some languages got popular and then faded away,
> while others stay for a long time.  Ruby also has two choices: to remain
> the same or to change with new technologies.

Ontogeny does not recapitulate philogeny in programming languages :-)
In other words, while things may evolve and change, any *particular*
programming language does not have to go through all the phases that
the ambient history is going through.  This is why there's more than
one programming language :-)

> I really do hope that the current Ruby will withstand the test of
> time for many-many years to come, just like the C language.  But I
> also hope that Ruby will not stay the same just for the sake of
> staticity, but because it can always answer new challenges in its
> current form.  However, when the time does come for a new change
> (like Perl to Perl 6?), I hope that Ruby will also.
>
> That's why probably two groups will be good.  comp.lang.ruby discusess on
> exploring the power of Ruby as it is, while comp.lang.ruby.beyond
> discusses on possible future paths that may be taken by Ruby.  I think the
> discussions on private variables and method overloading are really
> appropriate for comp.lang.ruby.beyond.  On the other hand, if it turns
> out that the current Ruby is close to the ultimate language (just like
> C is probably the "ultimate assembly language"), then the discussions on
> comp.lang.ruby.beyond will die by themselves...

I hope you won't mind my saying... I think there are some really
serious problems with that name.  If you're talking about the future
development of Ruby (as opposed to projects taking inspiration from
Ruby), there are already venues for discussion, and "beyond" sounds
wrong anyway (as opposed to "devel" or "future" or whatever).

And if you're talking about non-Ruby projects inspired by Ruby, like
the recent 'R' discussion, then having the name of Ruby hardwired into
the newsgroup name is very misleading.  Years from now, whatever is
going on in such a group may have nothing whatsoever to do with Ruby,
and yet there will be a connection perceived, and/or an endless need
to explain the history of the name and convince people that there is
no connection.

It would be a bit like comp.lang.perl.beyond instead of
comp.lang.ruby....  or something.


David

-- 
David Alan Black                      | Register for RubyConf 2002!
home: dblack@candle.superlink.net     | November 1-3
work: blackdav@shu.edu                | Seattle, WA, USA
Web:  http://pirate.shu.edu/~blackdav | http://www.rubyconf.com

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