[#66079] gc_sweep(): unknown data type 48 — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...>

15 messages 2003/03/01
[#66082] Re: [BUG] gc_sweep(): unknown data type 48 — nobu.nokada@... 2003/03/01

Hi,

[#66085] Re: [BUG] gc_sweep(): unknown data type 48 — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/03/01

On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 07:26:58PM +0900, nobu.nokada@softhome.net wrote:

[#66088] Anything like Class::DBI from Perl — pw-googlegroups@... (Peter Wilkinson)

We've been doing some work using Class::DBI in Perl which makes access

17 messages 2003/03/01

[#66217] Prolly a simple question — <ghost-no-spam@...>

Sorry if these questions have come up before, but google searching hasn't

20 messages 2003/03/03

[#66245] TCPSocket delay problem — Seth Kurtzberg <seth@...>

Matz,

23 messages 2003/03/04

[#66269] OSCON — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

For those coming to OSCON this year...

18 messages 2003/03/04

[#66315] system command expansion after PTY.spawn — Christian von Mueffling <cvm@...>

Hi!

13 messages 2003/03/05

[#66330] cookies in eruby mod_ruby — Daniel Bretoi <lists@...>

Can someone explain how to set/delete cookies using mod_ruby (eruby)?

13 messages 2003/03/06

[#66332] Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course — leikind@... (Yuri Leikind)

Hi all,

19 messages 2003/03/06

[#66392] DRB and threads — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...>

I wonder if anyone can give me some hints on the interactions between dRuby

22 messages 2003/03/06
[#66417] Re: DRB and threads — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/03/07

[#66421] Re: DRB and threads — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/03/07

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 07:15:29PM +0900, Robert Klemme wrote:

[#66449] Re: DRB and threads — ahoward <ahoward@...> 2003/03/08

On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Brian Candler wrote:

[#66454] Re: DRB and threads — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/03/08

On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 11:38:31AM +0900, ahoward wrote:

[#66440] Solving the 'strange language' documentation problem — "Josef 'Jupp' Schugt" <jupp@...>

Dear Rubyists,

18 messages 2003/03/07

[#66466] I'm to give short talk on ruby at work, anybody have material/outlines they can donate/ — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...>

10 messages 2003/03/08

[#66469] What character sets are available in Ruby ? — peterjohannsen@... (pj)

There is a Ruby FAQ which I read that said that Ruby only supports

17 messages 2003/03/08

[#66522] Thinking of learning Ruby — "anonimous" <n.thomp@...>

I have abour 3 or 4 years experience with Linux, and about 2 years

45 messages 2003/03/10

[#66530] Protocols — "Ray Capozzi" <Ray_Capozzi@...>

Is there a preferred set of ruby libraries for client/server solutions? As

26 messages 2003/03/10
[#66533] Re: Protocols — "MikkelFJ" <mikkelfj-anti-spam@...> 2003/03/10

[#66548] Re: Protocols — <jbritt@...> 2003/03/10

> "Ray Capozzi" <Ray_Capozzi@hotmail.com> wrote in message

[#66633] Threads and DRb — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

I changed the title here because this is not

16 messages 2003/03/10

[#66805] Ruby newbie uninstall question? — "Colin Coates" <colin@...>

Hello Everyone,

12 messages 2003/03/12

[#66850] Ruby / Eiffel ? — <cailloux@...>

Hello evry body

23 messages 2003/03/13

[#66906] Syck 0.08 -- Next-generation of YAML.rb — why the lucky stiff <yaml-core@...>

citizens,

21 messages 2003/03/14
[#66931] Re: [ANN] Syck 0.08 -- Next-generation of YAML.rb — Richard Kilmer <rich@...> 2003/03/14

Works great under OS X and Ruby 1.8!

[#66927] dynamically create a method — Rudolf Polzer <abuse@...>

Is there a possiblilty to dynamically create a method, like this?

14 messages 2003/03/14

[#66974] The onion truck strikes again ... Announcing rake — Jim Weirich <jweirich@...>

Ok, let me state from the beginning that I never intended to write this

25 messages 2003/03/15

[#67013] ANN: vcard 0.1 - a vCard decoding library — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...>

http://raa.ruby-lang.org/list.rhtml?name=vcard

10 messages 2003/03/15

[#67071] How do I get irb to use readline, (with OS X)? — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...>

I'm sure I saw something about this somewhere, but I've been searching,

12 messages 2003/03/16

[#67074] ANN: Madeleine 0.1 — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...>

28 messages 2003/03/16
[#67109] Re: ANN: Madeleine 0.1 — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/03/17

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 07:00:35AM +0900, Anders Bengtsson wrote:

[#67115] Re: ANN: Madeleine 0.1 — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...> 2003/03/17

--- Brian Candler <B.Candler@pobox.com> skrev:

[#67124] Re: ANN: Madeleine 0.1 — Brian Candler <B.Candler@...> 2003/03/17

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 11:37:56PM +0900, Anders Bengtsson wrote:

[#67128] Re: ANN: Madeleine 0.1 — Anders Bengtsson <ndrsbngtssn@...> 2003/03/17

--- Brian Candler <B.Candler@pobox.com> wrote:

[#67222] OT: XML too hard (YAML opportunity?) — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

On /. today there is a discussion about a weblog entry by an XML

27 messages 2003/03/18
[#67239] Re: XML too hard (YAML opportunity?) — <jbritt@...> 2003/03/19

> On /. today there is a discussion about a weblog entry by an XML

[#67302] Frequency of announcements — "Josef 'Jupp' Schugt" <jupp@...>

Hi!

14 messages 2003/03/19

[#67304] Strong advantages over Python — Greg McIntyre <greg@...>

Hi lovely Ruby people,

111 messages 2003/03/20
[#67408] Re: Strong advantages over Python — Greg McIntyre <greg@...> 2003/03/21

Good list. Amalgamated with http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/whats.html, it

[#67416] Re: Strong advantages over Python — Paul Prescod <paul@...> 2003/03/21

Greg McIntyre wrote:

[#67663] Ruby lecture slides (was Strong advantages over Python) — Greg McIntyre <greg@...> 2003/03/23

Thanks to all of you who answered and cleared up some of my perceptions

[#67675] Re: Ruby lecture slides (was Strong advantages over Python) — Paul Prescod <paul@...> 2003/03/23

Greg McIntyre wrote:

[#67685] Re: Ruby lecture slides (was Strong advantages over Python) — Mark Wilson <mwilson13@...> 2003/03/24

[#67697] Re: Ruby lecture slides (was Strong advantages over Python) — Greg McIntyre <greg@...> 2003/03/24

Mark Wilson <mwilson13@cox.net> wrote:

[#67346] class level Exception handling — Xiangrong Fang <xrfang@...>

Hi

12 messages 2003/03/20

[#67366] Newbie question: 9/5=1 ? — Thomas Jollans <nospam@...>

while learning ruby i wanted to program a simple fahrenheit to celsius

16 messages 2003/03/20

[#67387] Ruby tutorial download — Daniel Carrera <dcarrera@...>

Someone asked that I make the ruby tutorial available for download,

13 messages 2003/03/20

[#67415] Proposal: new operator: '<-' (for assignments) — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

15 messages 2003/03/21

[#67446] Ruby & LaTeX — Walter Cazzola <cazzola@...>

Dear Ruby Experts,

19 messages 2003/03/21

[#67514] Rake problem? — manfred.lotz@... (Manfred)

Hi,

15 messages 2003/03/21

[#67546] Expression results — debitsch@... (Rasmus)

Hello,

22 messages 2003/03/21
[#67549] Re: Expression results — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...> 2003/03/21

----- Original Message -----

[#67634] exiting a loop — Daniel Carrera <dcarrera@...>

Hello,

31 messages 2003/03/23

[#67711] Iterate over two lists in parallel — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...>

On Monday, March 24, 2003, 1:54:53 PM, Julian wrote:

33 messages 2003/03/24

[#67915] Conditionally make a method private? — Jeremy <thinker5555@...>

Hello again!

13 messages 2003/03/26

[#67961] What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — sdieselil@... (sdieselil)

See subject.

22 messages 2003/03/26
[#67966] Re: What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — "Chris Pine" <nemo@...> 2003/03/26

As was mentioned, Ruby has lambdas, but they are commonly called "procs".

[#67967] Re: What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/03/26

On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 12:50:04AM +0900, Chris Pine wrote:

[#67975] Re: What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2003/03/26

On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 01:01:25AM +0900, Mauricio Fern疣dez wrote:

[#67983] Re: What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — Mauricio Fern疣dez <batsman.geo@...> 2003/03/26

On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 02:20:48AM +0900, Paul Brannan wrote:

[#67986] Re: What are the differences between Ruby's blocks and Python's lambdas? — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2003/03/26

On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 04:40:40AM +0900, Mauricio Fern疣dez wrote:

[#68082] Array question — walter@...

Any one know why Array.join can't take a code block and join that

28 messages 2003/03/27

[#68198] Announce: RHDL-0.4.2 (Ruby HDL) an agile HDL — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

RHDL 0.4.2 is now available at:

12 messages 2003/03/29

[#68199] Ruby 1.6.8 vs Ruby 1.8.0 preview 2 - benchmarks — djberg96@... (Daniel Berger)

Hi all,

11 messages 2003/03/29

[#68201] Weighted random selection -- how would you do this? — "Hal E. Fulton" <hal9000@...>

Here's a little question for you.

24 messages 2003/03/29

[#68254] Saving code written during an irb session — Bil Kleb <W.L.Kleb@...>

OK, so I admit: I'm stupid. How do I save the code I've generated

19 messages 2003/03/30

[#68271] Hard coded newline characters — David King Landrith <dave@...>

There are a surprising number of ruby source files that have newline

24 messages 2003/03/30
[#68286] Re: Hard coded newline characters — nobu.nokada@... 2003/03/31

Hi,

[#68328] Re: Hard coded newline characters — David King Landrith <dave@...> 2003/03/31

On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 08:06 PM, nobu.nokada@softhome.net wrote:

[#68318] syntax highlighting problem in vim — "Josef 'Jupp' Schugt" <jupp@...>

Hi!

16 messages 2003/03/31
[#68325] Re: syntax highlighting problem in vim — KONTRA Gergely <kgergely@...> 2003/03/31

Negative. It is correct for me. How is it displayed at you?

Iteration styles (was Ruby lecture slides)

From: Jim Weirich <jweirich@...>
Date: 2003-03-24 04:52:54 UTC
List: ruby-talk #67719
On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 19:54, Greg McIntyre wrote:
> Okay, so what if, instead of saying "This functionality has been added
> to Python recently as generators," I said that "This functionality has
> been added to Python recently using generators"? I mean. If generators
> are a more powerful and general construct, they should be able to do
> what Ruby blocks can, plus more.

I don't think you can say blocks are more powerful than generators, nor
that generators are more powerful than blocks.  Its like claiming that
multiplication is more powerful than addition.

I think the key point is not blocks vs generators, but the *style* of
iteration in each language.  It is the basic choices about iteration
style that gives rise to blocks and generators.

Python (tends) to use a style of iteration I call external iterators
(terminology in the industry varies, so be aware).  The C language
designers noticed that a loop can be defined by initialize / test /
increment code fragments.  Likewise, an external iterator captures these
operations as methods in an object.  In Python (IIRC) the next() method
both returns the next object and advances the iterator and an exception
is used to signal the end of the iteration.

An external iterator object keeps its state separate from the object it
is iterating.  Multiple external iterators (referencing the same
collection) may exist at any one time.  The user may call next
explicitly, but I believe that Python is knowledgable about iterators
and will automatically use an iterator in a for statement.

External iterators are conceptually simple and easy to use.  Many
languages (e.g. C++, Java) use this style of iterator.

Here is an external iterator for Fibonacci numbers (in Ruby ... my
Python knowledge is too weak for public review :-)

  class FibIterator
    def initialize
      @x = 0
      @y = 1
    end
    def next
      @x, @y = @y, @x + @y
      @x
    end
  end

  fib = FibIterator.new
  9.times { print fib.next, " " }
  puts

The one annoying aspect of external iterators is that the logic for
iteration is spread across several methods of the iterator class.  Also,
the iterator class must be intimate with the details of the class it is
iterating over.

Internal iterators address this to some degree.  Instead of putting
initialize/test/increment into different methods, internal iterators put
the logic in a single method and have the client supply the "work"
code.  There are a number of ways to do this, but by far the simpliest
is to supply an anonymous function that is passed to the iterating
method.  This is the approach Ruby uses.

Here is an interal Fibonacci iterator in Ruby.

  def fibs(n)
    x = 0
    y = 1
    n.times do
      x, y = y, x + y
      yield(x)
    end
  end

It turns out that most loops can be expressed as a small number of
variations on basic internal iterator theme.  In Ruby, we give those
variations names (collect, select, reduce, find, find_all, etc.).  It is
not uncommon to write a Ruby program without using any explicit loops at
all.  This is a very powerful idiom.

Another advantage of internal iterators is that they are harder to
abuse.  Since the looping logic is encapsulated, you can't accidently
call next() beyond the end of the loop.

On the other hand, internal iterators have trouble with certain types of
algorithms.  The biggest stumbling block is that it is difficult to walk
two sequences in parallel using internal iterators.

Nevertheless, internal iterators are a powerful mechanism, and the Ruby
library is designed with internal iterators in mind.

So where do generators come in?  A generator is simply an external
iterator where the logic is written in an internal iterator style.  In
Python, a function that invokes "yield" really doesn't execute the body
of a function at all, but instead returns an iterator whose next()
function is tied to the function body.  When next() is called on this
iterator, the body executes until it hits yield.  Yield causes the given
value to be returned as the value of next.  When next() is called again,
the iterator will pick up where it left off with the code immediately
following the yield.

Here is the generator version of the Fibonacci sequence. (I'll paste in
the version from the Python recipe page)

  def fib():
    x = 0
    y = 1
    while 1:
        x, y = y, x + y
        yield x

  g = fib()
  for i in range(9):
    print g.next()

To accomplish this trick, generators do magic on the return stack.  I
don't recall the details, but conceptually you have two independent call
stacks, one for the calling code and one for the generator (note that I
said conceptually.  I think is real life Python does something tricky
that avoids the need for two actual stacks, but that's an optimization
detail).  In a very real sense, a generator is a very limited form of
coroutines.

So, generators are a way of having the flexibility of external iterators
with the convience of writing them in a single method like an internal
iterator.

Can Ruby do external iterators?  Sure, they are easy to write.  If we
hit one of those rare problems that really require external iterators,
we can write one and use it with no problem.  In general, there is no
need to resort to anything fancy (e.g. coroutines, generators or
continuations).

Now the Ruby library does assume most everything has an internal
iterator.  This is still no problem because it is easy to turn an
external iterator into an internal one if needed.

No, the real interesting question is how do you turn an existing
internal iterator into an external one ... that is without rewriting the
iteration logic.

This is possible in Ruby, but it requires that we be able to return from
a function in such a way we can resume the function at the return point
(exactly as generators do).  We don't have generators in Ruby, but we do
have a very powerful, mind-bending capability called continuations. 
Someday I would like to write up how do use continutations to do this,
but this note is already too long.  Suffice it to say that we can use
continuations to implement generator capability in about 20 lines of
code.  

So, if we need external iterators AND we have a container class that
only provides internal iterators AND we don't want to duplicate the loop
iteration logic, THEN we can use generators (implemented in
continuations) to get the effect we want.

So which way is better?  I find it is fascinating that both Ruby and
Python have almost equivalent power in its iteration, they have just
taken different paths to get there.

-- 
-- Jim Weirich     jweirich@one.net    http://w3.one.net/~jweirich
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, 
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)

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