Re: "stereotyping" (was: Re: Strong Typing (Re: Managing metadata about attribute types) )

Hi Sean,

The ruby code below illustrates some of my views on type/interface
checking. First of all I'm not that fond of interface checking using
respond_to? for several reasons. The simplest - and least debateable one -
being that it fails when any method_missing trick is used. Second, saying
that any object responding_to? the method quack means the object can quack
like a duck is stereotyping as well. If an object has this method, it
doesn't guarantee it can quack like a duck. If an object doesn't have this
method, it doesn't mean it can't quack like a duck. Of course while ruby
does provide a method to abstract an actual type from having a certain
name among the names of its ancestors, it doesn't abstract the actual type
from having certain names among its implemented methods. This is just a
thought that's been bugging me for a while now, mainly because of stuff
like name clashes, and the "what's in a name" phrase (a quack sounds the
same by any other name). Recently, as I was reading up on my Haskell
knowledge, something struck me. In Haskell you can specify a number of
types, and specify a number of functions that work with this type
(although it is not an OO language, it allows for OO-like stuff, but not
the usual syntax). The types can also be encapsulated. However there is no
inheritance among types. Now this is where Haskell classes come in. They
are much like interfaces, saying that some type in that class responds to
some functions. Any type that wants to belong to a class needs to provide
an implementation for each of the functions of that class - and here's the
cool part - without a necessary correspondence between the name of the
function in the class and the name of the function in the type. For
example a type could implement a function "doSomeQuacking", a class could
require a function "quack", and so one could specify that the function
"quack" from that class should really call "doSomeQuacking" on the type.
Also a type like CharlatanDuck below could belong to class Duck as well as
class Quack, both having a function quack. There's no problem with
ambiguity since asking a CharlatanDuck to quack in its role of Duck, it
will quack like a duck, and in its role as Quack, it will quack like a
quack. BTW, remark that Haskell's classes are truly classifications based
on functionality, which is better naming than ruby's classes which refer
to a code vehicle. Anyway, it's just a feature I'd personally like to see
in ruby too if type checking makes it there, but I'd make it optional too.
Note that although the type checking in Haskell is static, if you'd get
your interface checking through, something likewise could be added for
free (in terms of run time overhead) if you'd want, despite the fact that
ruby is dynamically typed. It's just an idea that will also be shot down
because of increases in number of lines, because of limited useability and
because it's not needed (but just for the sake of argumentation,
technically no one really needs ruby either, it's just more convenient for
some people than other languages, or a matter of taste, principle, etc.)
As for increase in number of lines for type checking in general; if it
saves documentation because it's self-documenting - not to mention that
the documentation is guaranteed to be consistent with the behavior - and
if it saves some checks of your own - suppose the same set of checks, or a
subset, etc. occur in several methods - and if it saves some testing, it
could be a gain, right? But that needs to be proven still...

Having used the occasion to put forth yet another stupid idea, I'll get to
your proposal... Momentarily you can't work the ObjectProxy below with
your technique, or anything that includes a method_missing technique. I
have no idea how to merge that into your technique since it requires
analyzing the body of the method_missing method and anything it calls,
which for one thing is an undecideable problem, but also it needs to be
redone as code changes. Maybe you should provide some way of delegating
the interface check, e.g., to $obj in the example below, but then you'd
give the programmer control and he or she can lie about what interfaces
are implemented. Personally, I find that not so much a problem because the
only effect is that it backfires on the one who lies. It *is* a problem if
the idea of the interface is used when interfacing with other languages,
but I guess I don't do that often. But since your interface check is just
a check (and a cheap one :-) for the moment, I guess this is no issue
(yet). Note that you can't simply have the ObjectProxy declare the
interfaces it implements because we don't know what kind of object will be
behind it - it's a matter of flexibility.

Another thing; since methods can be removed and added, maybe it's
interesting to also be able to add or remove the notification that you
intend to implement an interface. As such, no dynamism is lost there. But
it's an extra complication :-(

Last thing (unless I come up with something else before I send this mail);
you should probably also provide a way of declaring superinterfaces and
subinterfaces. Suppose someone provides an interface InputOutput which
provides methods for inputting and outputting (what else?). If some method
only uses the input part of the interface, you want to declare a
superinterface Input of InputOutput. I call it a superinterface since an
InputOutput can pass for an Input, but not the other way around. You'd
also want to declare subinterfaces, e.g., a StringInputOutput which offers
some additional functionality to InputOutput. Either you'd need to make
interfaces open, then you can just get by with declaring subinterfaces,
or otherwise you need both subinterfaces and superinterfaces. (At least
one programming language I know of can do both subclassing and
superclassing, so it's perfectly possible). Just for all clarity, making a
superinterface to an existing interface can happen when that existing
interface is in a library and you can't modify it (because it's closed).
Then instead of saying in the existing interface what the superinterface
is, you'd say in the superinterface that the interface from the library is
a subinterface.

OK, head is empty now.

BTW, I really admire you for still being here after all the heat :-)

Peter

PS: To everyone: I want to make this very clear; I'm not taking a stance
here whether type checking should happen or not. But I do think it's an
interesting experiment, whether you'd want it or not, and whether that is
for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. It's already pretty clear who
wants it and who does not. I think it's interesting, and only if we let
Sean work this through, we'll find out about the true value. It's not as
if we can change his mind anyway :-) Be like Matz and give him a chance!
---------------------
class ObjectProxy

  def initialize(obj)
    $obj = obj
  end

  alias_method :method_missing_old, :method_missing

  def method_missing(s, *args)
    if $obj.respond_to?(s)
      print "start of call to #{s.id2name}\n"
      result = $obj.send(s, *args)
      print "end of call to #{s.id2name}\n"
      result
    else
      method_missing_old(s, args)
    end
  end

end

class Duck

  def quack
    print "quack quack!!!\n"
  end

end

class DuckTapedDuck

  def doSomeQuacking
    print "quack quack!!!\n"
  end

end

class Quack

  def quack
    print "quack potion!!! quack pills!!! all very cheap, works better
than the real stuff!\n"
  end

end

class CharlatanDuck

  def quack
    print "want me to quack like a duck, or quack like a quack?\n"
  end

end

p Duck.new.respond_to?(:quack)
Duck.new.quack # a duck can quack like a duck
p Quack.new.respond_to?(:quack)
Quack.new.quack # a quack can quack like a quack, but can't quack as a duck
p CharlatanDuck.new.respond_to?(:quack)
CharlatanDuck.new.quack # ambiguous request
p DuckTapedDuck.new.respond_to?(:quack)
DuckTapedDuck.new.doSomeQuacking # and still I can quack like a duck
p ObjectProxy.new(Duck.new).respond_to?(:quack)
ObjectProxy.new(Duck.new).quack # and still I can quack like a duck
p ObjectProxy.new(Duck.new).respond_to?(:doSomeQuacking)
ObjectProxy.new(Duck.new).doSomeQuacking # fails, this time rightly so