[#86984] Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "David A. Black" <dblack@...>

Hi --

81 messages 2003/12/02
[#86998] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Steve Tuckner <STUCKNER@...> 2003/12/02

So what is the relationship between @_ vars and @vars that are defined in a

[#87001] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/02

Hi --

[#87006] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Steve Tuckner <STUCKNER@...> 2003/12/02

Maybe I am being dense, so bear with me...

[#87011] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...> 2003/12/02

Steve Tuckner wrote:

[#87013] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Steve Tuckner <STUCKNER@...> 2003/12/02

OK so the jist of it is that @_var variables are stored with the class of

[#87095] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/12/03

[#87098] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/03

Hi --

[#87102] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — ts <decoux@...> 2003/12/03

>>>>> "D" == David A Black <dblack@wobblini.net> writes:

[#87244] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "Christoph" <chr_mail@...> 2003/12/05

ts wrote:

[#87275] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — ts <decoux@...> 2003/12/05

>>>>> "C" == Christoph <chr_mail@gmx.net> writes:

[#87286] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "Christoph" <chr_mail@...> 2003/12/05

ts wrote:

[#87290] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/05

Hi --

[#87308] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/12/05

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:56:41 +0900, David A. Black wrote:

[#87310] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "Christoph" <chr_mail@...> 2003/12/05

Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#87320] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/12/05

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:40:42 +0900, Christoph wrote:

[#87322] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/05

On Friday 05 December 2003 06:41 pm, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#87314] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/05

On Friday 05 December 2003 05:40 pm, Christoph wrote:

[#87318] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2003/12/05

Hi,

[#87335] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Nathaniel Talbott <nathaniel@...> 2003/12/05

On Dec 5, 2003, at 12:15, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#87066] What's the best way to create methods dealing with an object of a certain class? — Leif K-Brooks <eurleif@...>

I want to add a method to be run on Strings. Currently, I'm just adding

14 messages 2003/12/03
[#87072] Re: What's the best way to create methods dealing with an object of a certain class? — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...> 2003/12/03

Leif K-Brooks wrote:

[#87083] Some Regexp — orlovdn@... (Dmitry N Orlov)

I want to get array from file like this:

20 messages 2003/12/03

[#87203] sorting — vanjac12@... (Van Jacques)

I'm not sure where to post about this problem, so

18 messages 2003/12/04

[#87233] Generalized break? — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...>

I hate to bring up possible language changes, since there is

14 messages 2003/12/04

[#87255] WeakRef and Object#hash — Samuel Tesla <samuel@...>

I'm trying to implement a weak key hash to use for generic objects.

37 messages 2003/12/05
[#87259] Dumb question to which I ought to know the answer by now — "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...> 2003/12/05

Is there an assignment version of Hash#values_at, so I can assign

[#87266] Re: Dumb question to which I ought to know the answer by now — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/12/05

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:42:05 +0900, Mark J. Reed wrote:

[#87333] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — "Weirich, James" <James.Weirich@...>

From: David A. Black [mailto:dblack@wobblini.net]

18 messages 2003/12/05
[#87337] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — Chris Thomas <chris@...> 2003/12/05

[#87402] Re: Attempted roadmap of future instance variables.... — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2003/12/06

Hi,

[#87382] Idea: Linux PIM in Ruby — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...>

On my wishlist of top 20 things I'd like to do: A PIM for Linux.

30 messages 2003/12/06
[#87407] Re: Idea: Linux PIM in Ruby — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...> 2003/12/06

Hal Fulton wrote:

[#87409] rbbr-0.5.0 — Masao Mutoh <mutoh@...>

Hi,

18 messages 2003/12/06

[#87430] Ideas for replacing $0==__FILE__ — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...>

I've accepted now that my "generalized break" was a bad idea. In

26 messages 2003/12/06
[#87720] Re: Ideas for replacing $0==__FILE__ — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2003/12/10

Hal Fulton (hal9000@hypermetrics.com) wrote:

[#87723] Re: Ideas for replacing $0==__FILE__ — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2003/12/10

Eric Hodel wrote:

[#87726] Re: Ideas for replacing $0==__FILE__ — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2003/12/10

Hal Fulton (hal9000@hypermetrics.com) wrote:

[#87459] Trying to create a Ruby daemon — Samuel Kvarnbrink <samuel.kvarnbrink@...>

Hi,

11 messages 2003/12/07

[#87553] format money — saggmannen@... (saggmannen)

Hello, is there a way to format "Money"-style floats in ruby. E.g:

25 messages 2003/12/08

[#87587] Adjusting the Scope of Blocks — Mark Cox <mark_cox@...>

Hi,

22 messages 2003/12/09
[#87606] Re: Adjusting the Scope of Blocks — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2003/12/09

[#87620] Re: Adjusting the Scope of Blocks — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/09

Hi --

[#87626] ANN: REXML 2.7.2 — ser@... (Sean Russell)

Hi,

18 messages 2003/12/09

[#87638] Inheriting variables, super, and "not super"? — Hugh Sasse Staff Elec Eng <hgs@...>

Is there a way in a method to say

11 messages 2003/12/09

[#87706] Docs for Socket, OpenSSL, etc — "James F. Hranicky" <jfh@...>

Are there any plans to add docs for modules like Socket and OpenSSL, etc to

23 messages 2003/12/10
[#87766] Re: Docs for Socket, OpenSSL, etc — Simon Strandgaard <neoneye@...> 2003/12/11

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:20:21 +0900, James F. Hranicky wrote:

[#87769] Re: Docs for Socket, OpenSSL, etc — "James F. Hranicky" <jfh@...> 2003/12/11

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:57:00 +0900

[#87780] Re: Docs for Socket, OpenSSL, etc — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2003/12/11

[#87781] Re: Docs for Socket, OpenSSL, etc — "James F. Hranicky" <jfh@...> 2003/12/11

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:07:28 +0900

[#87775] prog for g.c.d. of 2 integers — vanjac12@... (Van Jacques)

Topics from mathematics make good practice programs, IMO.

13 messages 2003/12/11

[#87783] problems with racc: $end token — "Luke A. Kanies" <luke@...>

Hello,

14 messages 2003/12/11
[#87789] Re: problems with racc: $end token — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2003/12/11

On Friday, 12 December 2003 at 0:42:30 +0900, Luke A. Kanies wrote:

[#87819] Ruby-Talk Subject Matters — "T. Onoma" <transami@...>

Out of curiosity, how do others feel about "suggestive" threads? Do you feel

15 messages 2003/12/11

[#87856] Simple issue giving problems — Brad <coish@...>

Hello all,

17 messages 2003/12/11

[#88031] inplace assignment — "T. Onoma" <transami@...>

is there anyway, anyway at all, ugly hacks accepted, of doing inplace

40 messages 2003/12/14
[#88032] Re: inplace assignment — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2003/12/14

T. Onoma wrote:

[#88034] Re: inplace assignment — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/14

On Sunday 14 December 2003 05:51 am, Hal Fulton wrote:

[#88037] Re: inplace assignment — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2003/12/14

T. Onoma wrote:

[#88041] Re: inplace assignment — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/14

On Sunday 14 December 2003 07:49 am, Hal Fulton wrote:

[#88056] Re: inplace assignment — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/14

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, T. Onoma wrote:

[#88059] Re: inplace assignment — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/14

On Sunday 14 December 2003 03:59 pm, David A. Black wrote:

[#88064] Re: inplace assignment — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/14

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, T. Onoma wrote:

[#88077] All there is to know about Duck Typing (was: inplace assignment) — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/14

Alright, a number of things related to Duck Tpying have been popping up and I

[#88081] Re: All there is to know about Duck Typing (was: inplace assignment) — "David Naseby" <david.naseby@...> 2003/12/14

> -----Original Message-----

[#88147] extremely strange segfault — "Luke A. Kanies" <luke@...>

Hi all,

14 messages 2003/12/15

[#88150] UnboundMethods Useless? — "T. Onoma" <transami@...>

Urrrr.....

34 messages 2003/12/15
[#88239] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — Dan Doel <djd15@...> 2003/12/16

You can do stuff like this:

[#88309] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/17

On Tuesday 16 December 2003 08:54 pm, Dan Doel wrote:

[#88322] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — Chad Fowler <chad@...> 2003/12/17

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, T. Onoma wrote:

[#88323] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — ts <decoux@...> 2003/12/17

>>>>> "C" == Chad Fowler <chad@chadfowler.com> writes:

[#88327] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/17

On Wednesday 17 December 2003 01:21 pm, ts wrote:

[#88328] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — ts <decoux@...> 2003/12/17

>>>>> "T" == T Onoma <transami@runbox.com> writes:

[#88332] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/17

On Wednesday 17 December 2003 01:59 pm, ts wrote:

[#88333] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/17

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, T. Onoma wrote:

[#88336] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — Peter <Peter.Vanbroekhoven@...> 2003/12/17

> I don't know what you mean by (ir)reversible, but the point is that

[#88337] Re: UnboundMethods Useless? — ts <decoux@...> 2003/12/17

>>>>> "P" == Peter <Peter.Vanbroekhoven@cs.kuleuven.ac.be> writes:

[#88159] Re: Extracting multiple lines from a file — "Berger, Daniel" <djberge@...>

> -----Original Message-----

18 messages 2003/12/15
[#88161] Re: Extracting multiple lines from a file — "Ron Coutts" <rcoutts@...> 2003/12/15

[#88166] Re: Extracting multiple lines from a file — "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...> 2003/12/15

On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 07:16:23AM +0900, Ron Coutts wrote:

[#88199] Re: Extracting multiple lines from a file — Derek Lewis <lewisd@...00f.net> 2003/12/16

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Mark J. Reed wrote:

[#88172] Copying methods from one class to another — "T. Onoma" <transami@...>

Is there any way to copy a method from one class to another?

22 messages 2003/12/16
[#88174] Re: Copying methods from one class to another — Jamis Buck <jgb3@...> 2003/12/16

T. Onoma wrote:

[#88183] Re: Copying methods from one class to another — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/16

On Tuesday 16 December 2003 05:23 am, Jamis Buck wrote:

[#88189] Re: Copying methods from one class to another — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2003/12/16

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, T. Onoma wrote:

[#88191] Re: Copying methods from one class to another — "T. Onoma" <transami@...> 2003/12/16

On Tuesday 16 December 2003 02:51 pm, David A. Black wrote:

[#88195] Re: Copying methods from one class to another — Hacksaw <hacksaw@...> 2003/12/16

Sorry to step into the middle of a conversation, but what does this mean:

[#88211] Newbie questions — jfrapper@... (Jim Frapper)

I was wondering what the equivalent tools were to perldoc(ri is not)

44 messages 2003/12/16
[#88259] Re: Newbie questions — Chad Fowler <chad@...> 2003/12/16

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Jim Frapper wrote:

[#88266] Re: Newbie questions — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...> 2003/12/16

On Wednesday, December 17, 2003, 8:10:19 AM, Chad wrote:

[#88270] Re: Newbie questions — Daniel Carrera <dcarrera@...> 2003/12/16

>

[#88271] Re: Newbie questions — "Luke A. Kanies" <luke@...> 2003/12/16

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Daniel Carrera wrote:

[#88272] Re: Newbie questions — Daniel Carrera <dcarrera@...> 2003/12/16

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 07:07:45AM +0900, Luke A. Kanies wrote:

[#88280] Re: Newbie questions — "Luke A. Kanies" <luke@...> 2003/12/16

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Daniel Carrera wrote:

[#88370] Re: Newbie questions — Derek Lewis <lewisd@...00f.net> 2003/12/17

[#88220] Re: Newbie questions — "Berger, Daniel" <djberge@...>

> -----Original Message-----

31 messages 2003/12/16
[#88224] Re: Newbie questions — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2003/12/16

Berger, Daniel wrote:

[#88227] Re: Newbie questions — Thomas Adam <thomas_adam16@...> 2003/12/16

--- Hal Fulton <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:

[#88228] Re: Newbie questions — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2003/12/16

Thomas Adam wrote:

[#88289] Very odd IO problem — Brad <coish@...>

All:

18 messages 2003/12/17

[#88414] Yukihiro - Please ensure backwards compatibility — jobeicus@... (Joseph Benik)

having recently migrated one of my machines from a 1.6 flavor to the

14 messages 2003/12/18

[#88494] How to return more than one result from a method? — Tim Hunter <cyclists@...>

I'm trying to code a method that has two result values. The values are

14 messages 2003/12/19

[#88581] replacing two EOL chars by one — xah@... (Xah Lee)

i have a bunch of java files that has spaced-out formatting that i

23 messages 2003/12/20

[#88643] Ruby 1.8.1 preview4 — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto)

Hi,

32 messages 2003/12/22

[#88731] RubyGems and dependencies — sera@... (Francis Hwang)

Two RubyGems questions about dependencies:

16 messages 2003/12/23

[#88781] TkText freezes — quillion <me@...>

Hello all,

21 messages 2003/12/24

[#88814] ruby 1.8.1 — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto)

Merry Christmas,

25 messages 2003/12/24

[#88936] Inconsistent value of uninitialized variable — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...>

The following statement, free of all context, generates an error:

10 messages 2003/12/28

[#88954] An addition to Array (or Enumerable)? — Harry Ohlsen <harryo@...>

Yesterday, I wanted to get the output from "ls -l some_file" and pull out just the file size and the file name. As I start writing this, I realise, of course, that I'd have been better off just using the File#size method, but I still think the issue I hit is interesting.

12 messages 2003/12/28

[#89015] ruby-dev summary 22273-22434 — "Takaaki Tateishi" <ttate@...>

Hello,

16 messages 2003/12/30
[#89016] Re: ruby-dev summary 22273-22434 — Austin Ziegler <austin@...> 2003/12/30

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:45:11 +0900, Takaaki Tateishi wrote:

Re: Underpinnings of Method Wrapping

From: Peter <Peter.Vanbroekhoven@...>
Date: 2003-12-02 19:01:59 UTC
List: ruby-talk #87024
> OK as in so-so, or OK as in yes? If just so-so we'll find something better. I
> thought of using 'sub' to convey the use of super within the method, and its
> kinship to subclassing. But I see what you're saying b/c it's sort of like
> subroutine. In fact submethod would be synonymous with wrap.  But I'm not too
> keen on adapter either because the method's interface doesn't have to change.
> Also, in that case we'd probably call a watch, an observer. I don't know if
> we want to refer to them in terms of similiar design patterns.  Here's some
> alternatives I came up with for inner wraps: touch, affect, yoke. By the way
> I searched google a bit, but I couldn't find anything in the way of these
> terms (except for a number of ruby-talk posts ;-).

I'm in the so-so zone. I've been looking for suggestions myself, but my
mind is currently a blank. And tired.

> :-)) matz posted earlier that he had not good "structure" for doing so.

That proves that it's a toughie :-)

> This is thorny and I'm starting to think there's no way around using super.
> super just can't take variant args in an outer wrap.

Yeah, but:

  class X
    def x(a)
      print a
    end
  end

  class Y < X
    def x(a)
      a += 1
      super
    end
  end

  Y.new.x(5) # => 6

We'd need yet another semantics for super in this case.

> A super wrap is the join points up against super in the method being wrapped.
> I like to call it a shrink wrap :-)

If you had called it that, I'd have known what you meant right away!

>   def x
>     print "X"
>   end
>
>   def x
>     print "<"
>     super
>     print ">"
>   end
>
>   def x
>     superwrap
>       print "("
>       super
>       print ")"
>     end
>   end
>
>   x; puts  # =>  <(X)>
>
> I discoverd the need for this when working on my gui interface. It alows you
> to keep the super in the method being wrapped wherever it needs to be
> relative to the advices.

Everything seems to point towards super needing to be explicit, except our
wanting to protect the programmer from making mistakes... See below.

> You're right. We can't save the world with one outer wrap. We need not be
> concerned with such "over" protection, just so long as we protect the method
> interface.

But to go a bit further, I'm wondering whether we should make a difference
at all and just have the programmer indicate whether the wrap should be
removed on primary redefinition or not - I mentioned the basic idea once
upon a time in [ruby-talk:86551]. Even wraps that are intrinsic can be
generic, e.g.,

  def foo(*args)
    args.map! { |a|
      if a.respond_to? :unpack
        a.unpack
      else
        a
      end
    }
    result = super
    if result.respond_to? :pack
      result.pack
    else
      result
    end
  end

I realize pack and unpack clash with the methods of String and Array, but
that's what those method indicators are for. But point is that the method
above not necessarily needs discarding, even if it does influence the
arguments and result. So maybe that too is up to the programmer to decide.
If he says the wrap should be kept, and it breaks things, then he should
fix it. If he was right, all's well.

I know that that's a break from Matz's proposal for pre and post where the
call to super is implicit and it is (apparently) easily enforced that the
arguments to super and its results are left alone. I never questioned that
that was a Good Thing. But it's only skin deep since the internal state of
the arguments and results can be changed anyhow (String#gsub! being an
example); also the internal state of self can be changed, and all
practical protection against that is again only skin deep. We can protect
the interface - or the skin if you want - but to what avail?

So my conclusion is that maybe we should have two separate keywords for
"submethod wraps" and "watch wraps", and be done with it. Ruby will
discard the former when the primary method is redefined, and will keep the
latter. And the rest is the programmer's responsibility. What do you
think?

Hmmmm, thinking about it some more, it seems that maybe we're unifying two
concepts that are really orthogonal. On one hand there's whether a wrap
should go when the primary method goes or whether it should stay. On the
other hand there's whether the interface (args + result) is meddled with
or not. I think the former is a functional difference, while the latter
feels like a documentation issue because nothing happens with it at run
time.

> BTW: did you read ruby-talk:86785?

I read it, but not thoroughly. It's on my toread pile for when my mind
unblanks.

Peter


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