Re: Its a bird, its a plane, its.. um, an Attribute based System?

On Apr 2, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Le Couey <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hello David,
>
> On 4/2/2010 10:39 AM, David Masover wrote:
>> Not to feed the troll, and I realize I'm late to this thread, but...
>>
>> That said, I'm not sure that was the main issue. The main issue is  
>> that you
>> not only concocted your own whole new vocabulary, but you were  
>> unable to
>> define pretty much any term you were using in plain English, or in  
>> plain Ruby,
>> or in any terms we would understand.
>>
>>
>>> 3. Using phrases that mean other things to people that are in
>>> authority is not a good way to start any conversation,
>>>
>> I don't know that there's any particular authority in control of  
>> this forum.
>> What authority there is seems to be meritocratic -- that is, I  
>> listen to
>> certain people because I know what they've done, and I know they  
>> can be
>> respected. When the guy who wrote Merb (and Nanite, and a bunch of  
>> other fun
>> things) tells you he doesn't know what you're talking about, I'm  
>> inclined to
>> believe it's that you have a problem communicating, and not that we  
>> have a
>> problem understanding.
>> ...
>>> 7.  Open source has an attitude of "show me your source" and any
>>> situation that does not fit this mold can become one of suspicion.
>>>
>> Somewhat, but not necessarily.
>>
>> For example, I've occasionally brought up my somewhat abstract idea  
>> of a pure-
>> Ruby actor library in which the messages sent between actors are  
>> just method
>> calls, and actors can be garbage-collected. I sort of have a  
>> prototype, but
>> I've never shared it here.
>>
>> Yet people were willing to talk to me about it, because I'm able to  
>> explain it
>> in terms they can understand. The only thing missing might be a  
>> description of
>> the actor model, and I can just point them here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor_model
>>
>> The reason people are insisting that you show us the code is that  
>> you seem
>> utterly incapable of saying what you mean in plain English, so  
>> there's the
>> hope that maybe, if there's something to it, we'll be able to  
>> understand your
>> code. I have my doubts about that -- it might be that people were  
>> hoping you'd
>> shut up and go make it work.
>>
>>
>>> 8 forum "politics" is not new to me, but the system of "Rank" here
>>> seems less fragmented than I had expected. Human swarms are always
>>> interesting.  Mr Davis used exactly the timing, and exactly decisive
>>> manner that I would use to shut down a "young turk" if I was in a
>>> position of authority.  (Breaking of rank at this point would take
>>> some balls.)
>>>
>> I'm fairly sure I've disagreed with Mr. Davis on occasion. I've  
>> certainly
>> "broken rank" with anyone here who could be considered a "leader".  
>> There are
>> all sorts of lively debates, and politics generally doesn't get in  
>> the way.
>>
>> The problem here is not politics, it is the fact that no one, even  
>> quiet
>> lurkers like me, is able to figure out what you're talking about.  
>> If someone
>> could, I'd hope they would speak up and translate for the rest of us.
>>
>>
>>
> I'm a lurker here myself. My time is very restricted right now, but I
> like to see what people are doing and what problems they're running  
> into
> AND what the solutions others have come up with, ;-)
>
> You've made some very good points here. But I think you may have  
> missed
> the primary consideration Thunk has that keeps him from communication
> what his real problem is ... so, with out a well defined problem, no  
> one
> can see a solution for him. So not responses that he "can use", only
> requests for clarification, which he "can't" give. The point you've  
> missed:
>> Meanwhile I will continue to build that public wiki at:
>>
>> http://wiki.github.com/gkoller/Ruids/
>>
>> at my own pace consistent with a "proprietary" release in 3 months or
>> so.
>> ...
>> Thunk
>>
> The key phrase is "proprietary". He's afraid of loosing MONEY if he
> actually tells what he wants, so he "hints" and "Hints" but does not
> tell anything that can be of use.
>
> I've seen this many times before, Thunk wants a solution HE CAN SELL  
> as
> HIS WORK, not OPEN SOURCE, or even the "Ruby way", he wants ALL the
> credit, but little of the work. He wants a solution that is a "plug  
> and
> play" solution. But, again, he's afraid to let anyone know what he
> really is after ... they might beat him to the market and get all the
> money first! Or at least that's the impression I'm getting from his
> writings so far. It's difficult for him, he doesn't trust anyone one  
> the
> list. He has no one he can turn to for help at the same time. If he's
> good he'll figure it out by himself. If he's just average ... well  
> he'll
> probably blame the list "politics".
>

Bingo. I even gave him a signed NDA so I can see code-- and phone  
number. He won't do a code drop online. Even I have no idea what he is  
really after. I thoujght I had some idea, but his lexicon kept changing.

Andrew McElroy



> -- 
> LeCouey
>    Professional Hacker (1967)                         Rubyist (from  
> the
> time when the ONLY docs were in Japanese, and I DON'T read/write/speak
> Japanese! <sigh>)
>    Professional Newbie (1950)                        There is always
> more to learn about Every Subject! AND There is always a better way,
> that requires less effort, of doing it.
>    Professional Generalist (1979)                    If I can't  
> program
> it, IT can not be done! By Anyone! (with maybe a few exceptions B- 
> \  ;-)
>
>
> --
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