[#144186] Re: array of object insert polices — "Pe, Botp" <botp@...>

dave [mailto:dave.m@email.it] wrote:

14 messages 2005/06/01

[#144206] Implementing a Read-Only array — Gavin Kistner <gavin@...>

Right up front, let me say that I realize that I can't prevent

14 messages 2005/06/01

[#144224] Method Chaining Issues — "aartist" <aartist@...>

try this:

28 messages 2005/06/01
[#144231] Re: Method Chaining Issues — "Phrogz" <gavin@...> 2005/06/01

This is a FAQ, though no page on the RubyGarden wiki seems to address

[#144240] Re: Method Chaining Issues — Nikolai Weibull <mailing-lists.ruby-talk@...> 2005/06/01

Phrogz wrote:

[#144230] ternary operator confusion — Belorion <belorion@...>

I don't know if this is "improper" use of the ternary operator, but I

19 messages 2005/06/01
[#144233] Re: ternary operator confusion — "Phrogz" <gavin@...> 2005/06/01

true ? a.push(1) : a.push(2)

[#144257] Re: ternary operator confusion — "Marcel Molina Jr." <marcel@...> 2005/06/01

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 01:40:23AM +0900, Phrogz wrote:

[#144263] Re: ternary operator confusion — Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@...> 2005/06/01

--- "Marcel Molina Jr." <marcel@vernix.org> wrote:

[#144453] RubyScript2Exe and GUI toolkits — Erik Veenstra <pan@...>

13 messages 2005/06/03

[#144487] Building a business case for Ruby — Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk@...>

Hi,

29 messages 2005/06/03

[#144535] ruby-dev summary 26128-26222 — Minero Aoki <aamine@...>

Hi all,

11 messages 2005/06/04

[#144579] Package, a future replacement for setup.rb and mkmf.rb — Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen@...>

29 messages 2005/06/04

[#144672] newbie read.scan (?) question — "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus.lists@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2005/06/06

[#144691] making a duck — Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@...>

Regarding duck-typing... Is there an easy way make a "duck"?

27 messages 2005/06/06

[#144867] ruby-wish@ruby-lang.org mailing list — dave <dave.m@...>

19 messages 2005/06/08
[#144870] Re: [PROPOSAL] ruby-wish@ruby-lang.org mailing list — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...> 2005/06/08

Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#144890] RubyStuff: The Ruby Shop for Ruby Programmers — James Britt <james_b@...>

Announcing the formal grand opening of Ruby Stuff: The Ruby Shop for

36 messages 2005/06/08

[#144966] python/ruby benchmark. — "\"</script>" <groleo@...>

I took a look at

78 messages 2005/06/09
[#144967] Re: python/ruby benchmark. — gabriele renzi <surrender_it@...> 2005/06/09

"</script> ha scritto:

[#144974] Re: python/ruby benchmark. — Lothar Scholz <mailinglists@...> 2005/06/09

Hello gabriele,

[#144977] Re: python/ruby benchmark. — Kent Sibilev <ksruby@...> 2005/06/09

Java is an order of magnitude faster than Ruby. The development of a

[#144980] Re: python/ruby benchmark. — Lothar Scholz <mailinglists@...> 2005/06/09

Hello Kent,

[#144983] Re: python/ruby benchmark. — "Ryan Leavengood" <mrcode@...> 2005/06/09

Lothar Scholz said:

[#145196] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson) 2005/06/12

In article <9e7db91105061106485b68d629@mail.gmail.com>,

[#145207] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@...> 2005/06/12

Phil Tomson wrote:

[#145212] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/06/12

On 6/12/05, Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@ieee.org> wrote:

[#145219] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@...> 2005/06/12

Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#145223] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/06/12

On 6/12/05, Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@ieee.org> wrote:

[#145240] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@...> 2005/06/12

Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#145241] Re: python/ruby benchmark(don't shoot the messenger) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/06/13

On 6/12/05, Steven Jenkins <steven.jenkins@ieee.org> wrote:

[#145000] RDoc

Hi, I have a question. When I compiled ruby-1.8.2

13 messages 2005/06/09
[#145003] Re: RDoc — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2005/06/09

On 09 Jun 2005, at 13:55, Jesffffas Antonio Sfffe1nchez A. wrote:

[#145238] finding Hash subsets based on key value — "ee" <erik.eide@...>

Hi

17 messages 2005/06/12

[#145304] PDF::Writer 1.0 (version 1.0.1) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...>

= PDF::Writer

21 messages 2005/06/13
[#145411] Re: [ANN] PDF::Writer 1.0 (version 1.0.1) — Jason Foreman <threeve.org@...> 2005/06/14

No love from PDF::Writer on Mac OS X 10.4.1. I hope to get this fixed

[#145420] Re: [ANN] PDF::Writer 1.0 (version 1.0.1) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/06/14

On 6/14/05, Jason Foreman <threeve.org@gmail.com> wrote:

[#145432] Re: [ANN] PDF::Writer 1.0 (version 1.0.1) — Jamis Buck <jamis@37signals.com> 2005/06/15

On Jun 14, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#145339] survey: what editor do you use to hack ruby? — Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@...>

I've been having a tough time getting emacs set up properly with ruby

62 messages 2005/06/14

[#145390] Ruby and recursion (Ackermann benchmark) — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson)

14 messages 2005/06/14

[#145586] How to make a browser in Ruby Tk — sujeet kumar <sujeetkr@...>

Hi

13 messages 2005/06/16

[#145636] Super-scalar Optimizations — "Phrogz" <gavin@...>

I was looking over the shoulder of a C++ coworker yesterday, when he

14 messages 2005/06/16

[#145677] Truth maintenance system in Ruby — "itsme213" <itsme213@...>

Anyone know of any kind of truth-maintenance system implemented in Ruby (or,

12 messages 2005/06/17

[#145720] Frameless RDoc template ('technology preview') — ES <ruby-ml@...>

Hi!

17 messages 2005/06/17

[#145779] Newbe questions... — "Chuck Brotman" <brotman@...>

In Ruby Is there a prefered (or otherwise elegant) way to do an inner &

17 messages 2005/06/18

[#145790] GC.disable not working? — Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@...>

From what I can tell, GC.disable doesn't work. I'm wanting to

37 messages 2005/06/18
[#145822] Re: GC.disable not working? — ts <decoux@...> 2005/06/19

>>>>> "E" == Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@yahoo.com> writes:

[#146024] evaluation of ruby — "Franz Hartmann" <porschefranz@...> 2005/06/21

Hello all,

[#145830] preventing instantiation — "R. Mark Volkmann" <mark@...>

What is the recommended way in Ruby to prevent other classes from creating

13 messages 2005/06/19
[#145831] Re: preventing instantiation — Gavri Fernandez <gavri.fernandez@...> 2005/06/19

On 6/19/05, R. Mark Volkmann <mark@ociweb.com> wrote:

[#145879] x==1 vs 1==x — Gavin Kistner <gavin@...>

I'm against _premature_ optimization in theory, but believe that a

19 messages 2005/06/20
[#145880] Re: x==1 vs 1==x — ts <decoux@...> 2005/06/20

>>>>> "G" == Gavin Kistner <gavin@refinery.com> writes:

[#145943] Chess Variants (II) (#36) — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

I don't want to spoil all the fun, in case anyone is still attempting

12 messages 2005/06/20

[#146038] 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — Michael Tan <mtan1232000@...>

Just new to Ruby since last week, running my same functional program on the windows XP(Pentium M1.5G), the Ruby version is 10 times slower than the Java version. The program is to find the prime numbers like 2, 3,5, 7, 11, 13... Are there setup issues? or it is normal?

47 messages 2005/06/21
[#146044] Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — "Florian Frank" <flori@...> 2005/06/21

Michael Tan wrote:

[#146047] Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — Jim Freeze <jim@...> 2005/06/21

* Florian Frank <flori@nixe.ping.de> [2005-06-22 05:40:14 +0900]:

[#146050] Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — "Ryan Leavengood" <mrcode@...> 2005/06/21

Jim Freeze said:

[#146132] Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — "Mark Thomas" <mrt@...> 2005/06/22

Florian Frank wrote:

[#146064] rubyscript2exe — Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk@...>

Hi,

14 messages 2005/06/21

[#146169] spidering a website to build a sitemap — Bill Guindon <agorilla@...>

I need to spider a site and build a sitemap for it. I've looked

17 messages 2005/06/22

[#146178] traits-0.4.0 - the coffee release — "Ara.T.Howard" <Ara.T.Howard@...>

15 messages 2005/06/22

[#146328] string to Class object — "R. Mark Volkmann" <mark@...>

How can I create a Class object from a String that contains the name of a class?

15 messages 2005/06/24

[#146380] Application-0.6.0 — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

CommandLine - Application and OptionParser

22 messages 2005/06/24

[#146391] ASP.NET vs Ruby on Rails — Stephen Kellett <snail@...>

HI Folks,

21 messages 2005/06/24
[#146457] Re: ASP.NET vs Ruby on Rails — "Dema" <demetriusnunes@...> 2005/06/25

Hi Stephen,

[#146425] speeding up Process.detach frequency — Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk@...>

Is there any way to speed up Process.detach? The ri documentation for

14 messages 2005/06/25

[#146483] I saw the beauty of Ruby Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — Michael Tan <mtan1232000@...>

22 messages 2005/06/26
[#146485] Re: I saw the beauty of Ruby Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — "Florian Frank" <flori@...> 2005/06/26

Michael Tan wrote:

[#146504] Re: I saw the beauty of Ruby Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — Brad Wilson <dotnetguy@...> 2005/06/26

For comparison, the port of your code to (less than elegant) C#.

[#146515] Re: I saw the beauty of Ruby Re: 1. Ruby result: 101 seconds , 2. Java result:9.8 seconds, 3. Perl result:62 seconds — Florian Gro<florgro@...> 2005/06/26

Brad Wilson wrote:

[#146491] What do you want to see in a Sparklines Library? — Daniel Nugent <nugend@...>

This is sort of an interest gauging/feature request poll.

17 messages 2005/06/26
[#146506] Re: What do you want to see in a Sparklines Library? — Daniel Amelang <daniel.amelang@...> 2005/06/26

See what's already been done before you get too far.

[#146517] Re: What do you want to see in a Sparklines Library? — Daniel Nugent <nugend@...> 2005/06/26

Yup, seen the stuff on RedHanded, I was planning on writing a little

[#146562] RCM - A Ruby Configuration Management System — Michael Neumann <mneumann@...>

Hi all,

22 messages 2005/06/27

[#146630] yield does not take a block — Daniel Brockman <daniel@...>

Under ruby 1.9.0 (2005-06-23) [i386-linux], irb 0.9.5(05/04/13),

48 messages 2005/06/28
[#146666] Re: yield does not take a block — Daniel Brockman <daniel@...> 2005/06/28

Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> writes:

[#146680] Re: yield does not take a block — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2005/06/28

Hi,

[#146684] Re: yield does not take a block — Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@...> 2005/06/28

[#146779] Re: yield does not take a block — "Adam P. Jenkins" <thorin@...> 2005/06/29

Eric Mahurin wrote:

[#146700] Anything in new Eclipse for Rubyists? — "jfry" <jeff.fry@...>

Hey there, I know that a number of folks on the list use Eclipse as

14 messages 2005/06/28

[#146773] Programmers Contest: Fit pictures on a page — hicinbothem@...

GLOSSY: The Summer Programmer Of The Month Contest is underway!

18 messages 2005/06/29

[#146815] shift vs. slice!(0) and others — Eric Mahurin <eric_mahurin@...>

I just did some benchmarking of various ways to insert/delete

12 messages 2005/06/29

Re: ASP.NET vs Ruby on Rails

From: xmlblog@...
Date: 2005-06-28 17:25:42 UTC
List: ruby-talk #146665
Having written tens of thousands of lines of code in ASP.NET for
commercial sites (www.deltavacations.com, www.covacations.com among
them) and being in the middle of writing a new site using RoR, I
believe I can add some hard-earned comments to this discussion:

ASP.NET is very powerful. The library is enormous and it has many
enterprise-ready technologies built into it. The most important of
these is transaction support. .NET 2.0 transaction support is even
better with the lightweight transaction scope. This is perhaps the
biggest gap in RoR's offering. That said, I disagree that ASP.NET is
more productive than RoR. I have been FAR more productive with RoR
after just a few months of learning Ruby and a few weeks of using RoR
than I am with .NET even though I've been coding on the MS platform for
10 years, with half of that time spent almost exclusively working on
web applications.

It is true that ASP.NET provides some great controls (grids, etc) for
web applications and 2.0 has even more (login view, for one). But what
is doesn't provide out of the box is a true ORM layer (from Microsoft
anyway). ActiveRecord is responsible for the great majority of the
productivity on the Rails platform. If I never have to create another
SqlConnection, SqlCommand, or SqlParameter object again, it will be too
soon. Yes, I have rolled my own Data Access layer, but for goodness
sakes, how many DALs have I built in the Windows world in the last 10
years?! Nhibernate is not fun either. Powerful as it may be, it moves
the burden from C# code to xml configuration. If I were to consider an
ORM tool for .NET, it would be LLBLGen.

My second-favorite Rails feature is the architectual guidance that is
built right into the framework. MVC clear as MVC can be, with
directories built right there for you. Yes, ASP.NET is MVC also, but
the PageConroller style generated in ASP.NET using Visual Studio is too
weak for my taste. RoR encourages validation of business rules in the
model, where it can be re-used effectively (read: where it belongs),
whereas ASP.NET's validation controls seem to encourage developers to
validate the rules in the UI. Surely, a case can be made for UI
validation to avoid server roundtrips and workload, but I don't buy
into it. My servers are running at 5% CPU utilization, and my
developers are running at 105% utilization. Of course, I can build my
own Enterprise Templates (a$$uming you have an Enterpri$e Ver$ion of
Vi$ual $tudio) but Rails' approach of sensible defauls (and everything
overridable) clearly wins out here.

The net result is that I *don't need* an ultra-powerful IDE like VS to
develop RoR apps. I do just fine with VIM, thank you. I may not have
IntelliSense or Refactoring, but the time saved on DALs alone more than
makes up for it, and, honestly, I refactor a lot less in Rails because
everything is already in place. If someone told me I had to build a
commercial ASP.NET application with VIM I'd tell them to go fly a kite.
Furthermore, VS does a bunch of weird crap to make interoperability
with Linux/Mono impossible (maybe a non-issue if you're a 'Microsoft
shop'). VS.NET code-behind pages use different attributes which make
building Visual Studio ASP.NET solutions on Linux with mono impossible.
You could argue this is a Mono limitation, I suppose, but the point is
you are pretty much locked in to the MS platform meaning Windows XP on
the development desktop, Windows 2003 on the Server, Visual Studio, and
MS SQl server. Add up the cost of that.

Lastly, I'll mention the default ASP.NET push for people to use data
structures such as DataReaders and DataSets. I don't care for them. I
prefer a real domain model, for several reasons. First, it encourages
*real* oo-style programming. Second, and most important, I am in
control of my data structure's internals, not Microsoft. Ask any
VB6/Windows DNA/ASP 3.0 developer how much fun he's having Interop'ing
the old ADO Recordset object with his shiny, new ASP.NET code and he'll
tell you he's ready to blow his brains out. I won't make that same
mistake. I prefer a Hotel object to a HotelDS and an IDictionary to an
SqlDataReader. That way when MS abandons the SqlDataReader I won't
care.

Having said all that, I do think the .NET platform is solid and
enterprise-ready. C# is an enjoyable language to program in compared to
C++, VB, and Java (all of which I have written production code with).
Still, the dynamic power of Ruby and it's cavity-causing syntactic
sugar like Enumerable#collect and Enumerable#partition is hard to
overcome. Don't rule MS out, however. They're busy at work on a Python
version for .NET (IronPython) and Don Box loves him some Ruby. I also
believe MS has made great strides with .NET 2.0, especially wrt
ASP.NET, but I think they have a long way to go to provide the kind of
out-of-the-box, architecturally sound, and simple productiviy found in
Rails. In contrast, most of the architectural guidance coming out of
Redmond these days is constipated -- Enterprise Library, anyone? Again,
nothing in ASP.NET prevents you from writing aesthetically beautiful
and simple web application code, but the feeling I get from the default
Visual Studio web project setup falls short or 'rails myapp'.

In short, if you need transactional capabilities or need to integrate
with some of the other enterprise features (message queueing), build
with .NET and get yourself a good code-generation/ORM tool. If you're
building your standard 3-tier web app, or have a tiny budget, I
recommend giving Rails a serious look.

Cheers,
Christian Romney


Dema wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> I've seen that aGorilla has pointed you to my blog
> (http://dema.ruby.com.br) on this subject.
>
> As I am still working on both platforms, let me give you a summed up
> comparison.
>
> I think both ASP.NET and Ruby on Rails approach different ways for
> building web apps, but both manage to do it in a very high quality
> manner.
>
> In the end, it's much more about developer's taste and less about
> technical issues.
>
> For instance, if you're more towards statically-typed languages and are
> used to have a compiler and a top-notch IDE (VS.NET) to help you out,
> then by all means go with ASP.NET.
>
> On the other hand, if you prefer simpler tools (more text-based),
> dynamic languages, and running your app in a interpreted, more agile
> environment, RoR might be a good fit.
>
> On the technical side, ASP.NET as we all know has some portability
> issues, so, inspite of Mono, your best bet on a production environment
> would be on a Windows web server and a SQL Server database. Remeber the
> high costs of that.
>
> RoR is based on a completely free, open-source stack (Ruby, Apache,
> Lighttpd, MySQL, Postgre, etc) and runs well on pretty much any OS
> platform out there, be it Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, MacOS, Solaris, etc.
>
> If your going with RoR, remember to allocate some quality time for
> studying the language and the framework and getting used to new tools
> and environments and learning how things are done in a open-source
> community. It takes some time to get up to full speed, but at the same
> time, can be a revealing and rewarding experience.
>
> Of course, these days, I'd recommend RoR, but remember that what best
> fits me, and it might be different for you. Anyway, you will be in good
> hands if you go with ASP.NET as well.
>
> best regards,
> Demetrius
> http://dema.ruby.com.br/
>
>
> Stephen Kellett wrote:
> > HI Folks,
> >
> > Anyone here done both ASP.NET and Rails? Care to compare and contrast?
> > I'm not interested in MS bashing, just the pros and cons of both
> > environments.
> >
> > The reason I ask is that I've just read on joelonsoftware that he thinks
> > ASP.NET is excellent and is the best solution for server based work
> > presented on a website. I wonder if anyone thinks thats a valid
> > statement or not and can provide arguments for/against that point of
> > view.
> >
> > If ASP.NET does offer superior things to Rails, what can be done to
> > Rails and/or Ruby to change things?
> >
> > Stephen
> > --
> > Stephen Kellett
> > Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
> > Computer Consultancy, Software Development
> > Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting


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