[#343034] RUBY vs COMMON LISP — fft1976 <fft1976@...>

On Aug 1, 8:55=A0pm, p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)

16 messages 2009/08/02

[#343054] Inconsistency in Array#[] — Wojciech Piekutowski <w.piekutowski@...>

Disclaimer: I know what docs say, but I'd prefer a different

14 messages 2009/08/02

[#343135] Kind of ParsTree for 1.9.1 — Macario Ortega <macarui@...>

22 messages 2009/08/04

[#343186] Bizarre Range behavior — Scott Briggs <scott.br@...>

Can someone please explain this behavior in ruby (1.8.6p111):

42 messages 2009/08/04
[#343187] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Yossef Mendelssohn <ymendel@...> 2009/08/04

On Aug 4, 1:47=A0pm, Scott Briggs <scott...@gmail.com> wrote:

[#343193] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Rob Biedenharn <Rob@...> 2009/08/04

On Aug 4, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Yossef Mendelssohn wrote:

[#343196] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — "Matthew K. Williams" <matt@...> 2009/08/04

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Rob Biedenharn wrote:

[#343199] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Rob Biedenharn <Rob@...> 2009/08/04

On Aug 4, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Matthew K. Williams wrote:

[#343234] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2009/08/05

Hi,

[#343251] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/08/05

Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#343261] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2009/08/05

Hi,

[#343266] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2009/08/05

Hi --

[#343272] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2009/08/05

Hi,

[#343273] Re: Bizarre Range behavior — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/08/05

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Yukihiro Matsumoto<matz@ruby-lang.org> wro=

[#343235] remove commas from string — Jason Lillywhite <jason.lillywhite@...>

I have following string:

14 messages 2009/08/05

[#343288] including gems with standalone app — Eric Peterson <ericdp@...>

Morning,

10 messages 2009/08/05

[#343320] 1.9 String and M17N documentation — Brian Candler <b.candler@...>

I have put together a document which tries to outline the M17N

20 messages 2009/08/06
[#343351] Re: [ANN] 1.9 String and M17N documentation — James Gray <james@...> 2009/08/06

On Aug 6, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Brian Candler wrote:

[#343378] Re: [ANN] 1.9 String and M17N documentation — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2009/08/07

On Aug 6, 2009, at 08:57, James Gray wrote:

[#343423] How do I add ? — chutsu <chutsu@...>

I've got a file that is in two columns, how do I add the second column

14 messages 2009/08/07

[#343566] Reading contents of a file and storing — Shekar Ls <idealone5@...>

Guys,

14 messages 2009/08/10

[#343592] Destroying related objects doubt ... basic oop question — Soh Dubom <sohdubom@...>

::Destroying related objects doubt

16 messages 2009/08/10
[#343726] Re: Destroying related objects doubt ... basic oop question — Mike Stephens <rubfor@...> 2009/08/12

Yet another reason for steering well clear of object-relational mappers.

[#343751] Re: Destroying related objects doubt ... basic oop question — Fabian Streitel <karottenreibe@...> 2009/08/12

> Yet another reason for steering well clear of object-relational mappers.

[#343649] Good editor for Windows Ruby — Peter Bailey <pbailey@...>

Hello,

21 messages 2009/08/11

[#343658] Readline not working with Ruby — Stewart <stewart.matheson@...>

24 messages 2009/08/11

[#343756] Class#descendants? — Jason Lillywhite <jason.lillywhite@...>

Ruby can do Class#ancestors but not Class#descendants.

18 messages 2009/08/12
[#343757] Re: Class#descendants? — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...> 2009/08/12

Jason Lillywhite wrote:

[#343771] skip_before_filter (Do I need a lesson in modules/mixins?) — Cris Shupp <cshupp1@...>

Gurus,

13 messages 2009/08/12

[#343831] newbie question making a folder with ruby — Simon Staton <simon@...>

ok well the program I am in the middle of programming I need it to

20 messages 2009/08/13
[#343851] Re: newbie question making a folder with ruby — Lui Core <usurffx@...> 2009/08/13

Simon Staton wrote:

[#343898] Re: newbie question making a folder with ruby — Simon Staton <simon@...> 2009/08/14

Lui Core wrote:

[#343902] Re: newbie question making a folder with ruby — Simon Staton <simon@...> 2009/08/14

To give more of an idea this is the code that I have on the .rb file. it

[#343920] Class method aliased in superclass bypasses subclass overrides — Marcos <markjreed@...>

This seems like it should work:

11 messages 2009/08/14

[#344009] start_with? Does someone need a grammar lesson? — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...>

String#start_with?-------------------------------

15 messages 2009/08/17

[#344088] fromdos dos2unix in ruby — Krzysztof Cierpisz <ciapecki@...>

how can I achieve in ruby the result of running:

18 messages 2009/08/18
[#344103] Re: fromdos dos2unix in ruby — krzysztof cierpisz <ciapecki@...> 2009/08/18

>

[#344109] Re: fromdos dos2unix in ruby — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/08/18

2009/8/18 krzysztof cierpisz <ciapecki@gmail.com>:

[#344125] exercise in DRY — Peter Ehrlich <crazedcougar@...>

I have some simple code for a thumbs up/thumbs down functionality.

13 messages 2009/08/18

[#344180] #has_arguments? — Intransition <transfire@...>

Messing with optional argument check for the umpteenth time, eg.

23 messages 2009/08/19

[#344218] Confirm my Performance Test Against Java? — Ben Christensen <benjchristensen@...>

I'm evaluating Ruby for use in a variety of systems that are planned by

40 messages 2009/08/19
[#344222] Re: Confirm my Performance Test Against Java? — brabuhr@... 2009/08/19

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Ben Christensen

[#344342] extending ruby - handling errors — Jason Lillywhite <jason.lillywhite@...>

I want to raise an ArgumentError, "Function only takes numeric objects."

11 messages 2009/08/20

[#344345] How do I estimate how long it will take a calculation to complete? — Paul <tester.paul@...>

Hi there, I wrote a short ruby script to calculate the prime factors

10 messages 2009/08/20

[#344366] Why, oh why, _why? — Karl von Laudermann <doodpants@...>

_why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets!

79 messages 2009/08/20
[#344400] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Ralf Mueller <ralf.mueller@...> 2009/08/21

Karl von Laudermann wrote:

[#344421] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Ralf Mueller<ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> wrote:

[#344432] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> w=

[#344434] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Rick DeNatale<rick.denatale@gmail.com> wro=

[#344441] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Jason Roelofs <jameskilton@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote:

[#344448] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Xavier Noria <fxn@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Jason Roelofs<jameskilton@gmail.com> wrote:

[#344453] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Jason Roelofs <jameskilton@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:

[#344525] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Todd Benson <caduceass@...> 2009/08/22

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Karl von

[#344526] Re: Why, oh why, _why? — Todd Benson <caduceass@...> 2009/08/22

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Todd Benson<caduceass@gmail.com> wrote:

[#344404] How to convert string "/regexp/i" to /regexp/i - ? — Joao Silva <rubyforum@...>

When i try to use:

20 messages 2009/08/21

[#344462] Github and _why — John W Higgins <wishdev@...>

I'm about to get very nasty responses but this absolutely is a very bad

19 messages 2009/08/21
[#344467] Re: Github and _why — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/08/21

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:38 AM, John W Higgins <wishdev@gmail.com> wrote:

[#344545] 1.8.7 String#lines keeps new-line chars (say it ain't so in 1.9) — Intransition <transfire@...>

Ruby 1.8.7 p72

19 messages 2009/08/22

[#344554] Ruby Editor — sasan <sasan.bahrieh@...>

I need a good software for ruby programming. please post message for

21 messages 2009/08/22

[#344573] ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — Sys Ppp <systemppp@...>

ruby-1.8.6-p369

19 messages 2009/08/22
[#344593] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...> 2009/08/23

...and more

[#344597] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — Sys Ppp <systemppp@...> 2009/08/23

> $ rdebug r2test.rb

[#344652] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...> 2009/08/24

Sys Ppp wrote:

[#344653] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...> 2009/08/24

...or I guess this would be a better example:

[#344656] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — Sys Ppp <systemppp@...> 2009/08/24

To 7stud. These are all normal, except class-method, as i wrote.

[#344691] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/08/24

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Sys Ppp<systemppp@gmail.com> wrote:

[#344705] Re: ruby-debug does not hit breakpoints at class-methods — Sys Ppp <systemppp@...> 2009/08/24

Rick Denatale wrote:

[#344580] Development - works, production not - why? — Joao Silva <rubyforum@...>

My development envrioment:

11 messages 2009/08/23

[#344680] Comparison Ruby, Python, Php, Groovy ecc. — Marco Mastrodonato <m.mastrodonato@...>

Comparison script languages for the fractal geometry, these are the

25 messages 2009/08/24
[#344684] Re: Comparison Ruby, Python, Php, Groovy ecc. — Urabe Shyouhei <shyouhei@...> 2009/08/24

Are those executables compiled with identical compilers + compile flags?

[#344717] _why's "suicide" note? — Graham Agnew <graham.agnew@...>

Just found this as _why's last tweet on the Google cached copy of _why's

12 messages 2009/08/24

[#344762] Calling method from another class — Kostas Lps <louposk@...>

Hi guys,

15 messages 2009/08/24

[#344872] ||= with 1.8 and 1.9 ? — Aldric Giacomoni <aldric@...>

A friend of mine on Twitter recently posted this tidbit of code:

30 messages 2009/08/26
[#344879] Re: ||= with 1.8 and 1.9 ? — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/08/26

Aldric Giacomoni wrote:

[#344899] Re: ||= with 1.8 and 1.9 ? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/08/26

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Brian Candler<b.candler@pobox.com> wrote:

[#344921] Re: ||= with 1.8 and 1.9 ? — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/08/26

Rick Denatale wrote:

[#344923] Re: ||= with 1.8 and 1.9 ? — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...> 2009/08/26

Brian Candler wrote:

[#344881] # sign does not work as expected form irb — Salvador Sanjuan <salvador.sanjuan@...>

I have just started Ruby. I have tried to do some exercises usin irb but

15 messages 2009/08/26
[#344887] Re: # sign does not work as expected form irb — Aldric Giacomoni <aldric@...> 2009/08/26

Salvador Sanjuan wrote:

[#344988] Re: # sign does not work as expected form irb — Salvador Sanjuan <salvador.sanjuan@...> 2009/08/27

Aldric Giacomoni wrote:

[#344938] Rack must not dictate how to create a middleware — Sys Ppp <systemppp@...>

In current realization of Rack::Builder the method :use dictates that

15 messages 2009/08/26
[#344940] Re: Rack must not dictate how to create a middleware — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/08/26

Sys Ppp wrote:

[#345037] Possible to use Ruby for Dynamic HTML sites without Rails? — Frank Peterson <fictionalperson@...>

How easy is this to do? I've been going though a Ruby book again (was

13 messages 2009/08/27

[#345070] I need a string#all_indices method--is there such a thing? — timr <timrandg@...>

In ruby you can use string#index as follows:

22 messages 2009/08/28

[#345079] #map, #select semantics — James Coglan <jcoglan@...>

I imagine this has come up before, though I can't find anything about it. I

16 messages 2009/08/28

[#345097] How to call this method — Robert Dober <robert.dober@...>

Hi list

15 messages 2009/08/28
[#345100] Re: How to call this method — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/08/28

2009/8/28 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>:

[#345222] Sorting an array by multiple elements? — Paul <tester.paul@...>

Hi there, I have an array of arrays that I want to sort by multiple

14 messages 2009/08/30

[#345267] What is the ruby conventions to name private method? — pierr <pierr.chen@...>

16 messages 2009/08/31
[#345274] Re: What is the ruby conventions to name private method? — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2009/08/31

[#345322] help on phps $$ equivalent in ruby — Arthur Rats <simon.jacobs.ams@...>

i just cant find this anywhere, googling for a while and read up tons on

11 messages 2009/08/31

Re: #map, #select semantics

From: Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...>
Date: 2009-08-28 13:35:22 UTC
List: ruby-talk #345101
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:42 AM, James Coglan<jcoglan@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I imagine this has come up before, though I can't find anything about it. I
> was talking to a friend last night who mentioned that in Smalltalk, the
> #collect and #select methods (and some others) return the same type as the
> object they're called on, and in Ruby they always return an Array, no matter
> what the receiver type is. This seems like a good idea to me, though there
> are some questions:

I'm not sure what you mean is a good idea, the Smalltalk way, the Ruby
way, or that there's a difference?

Actually, it's not completely true that in Smalltalk collect and
select return the same class (and in both Ruby and Smalltalk classes
are not types), as the receiver.  In Smalltalk they return an instance
of the species of the receiver.  The abstract Collection class
implements collect and select which calls self species to get the
class to instantiate the result.

The collect method then enumerates the receiver and adds each element
to the result using the add: method.  Select pretty much is the same
except that adds the element conditional on what the block evaluation
returns.

The abstract implementation of species is just self class, but it is
overridden when that's not appropriate. For example the Interval class
(ST's rough equivalent of Range) overrides species to return Array.

I'm going to reorder your questions a bit.

> 2. Is part of the contract of #map that you get back a collection of the
> same size as the input? If so, what happens if you #map a Set and produce
> duplicates? The output will be smaller than the input (similarly for hash
> key collisions). Certainly from an FP viewpoint, a map is a one-to-one
> transform from input to output values, so it would seem logical to have as
> many output values as input values.

Not in Smalltalk.  If you send collect to a Set, you'll get back a Set
of the results of evaluating the block for each element of the
receiver, which means that duplicates will be removed.  So the result
Set may be smaller than the original.

> 1. What do they mean when applied to a Hash? Do you want a list of values,
> or keys, or pairs? Or do you want to map each key and value to a different
> key and value, and have #map build a Hash for you? If so, how do you
> represent that as a return value? Is it [key, value] or {key => value} ?
>
>
> 3. There is no uniform method for adding items to a collection. We have
> Array#<<, Hash#[]=, Set#add and Set#add?. For linked lists, adding to the
> collection would involve changing pointers on existing members of the
> collection. Is it possible to come up with a single method/message whose
> role is to provide a uniform way to add something to any collection?

Smalltalk implements Dictionary (which is the rough equivalent of
Ruby's Hash) as a subclass of Set.  A Smalltalk Dictionary is a Set of
Associations. An instance of Association represents a key-value pair,
and two Associations are considered equal if the keys are equal.  When
you enumerate a Dictionary in Smalltalk with the do: method (the rough
equivalent of #each), the values of the associations are enumerated.
There's also an associationsDo: method which enumerates the
associations.

In Smalltalk there is a uniform method to add an item to a collection
add:  So to add an item to a Dictionary you add an association.

So what about collect/select for Dictionaries.

In Smalltalk, Dictionary overrides collect: to return an instance of
Bag holding the values in the Dictionary, a Bag is just what it sounds
like, it's a bag of objects which is unordered and may have
duplicates.

Dictionary also overrides select: to use associationsDo: instead of
do: it returns an instance of the species of the receiver (a
Dictionary for Dictionary instances, but maybe something else for a
subclass) after adding each association value from evaluating the
block argument for each association in the receiver.  So in this case
you'd get back a Dictionary or something like a Dictionary.

All of this is based on "Blue-Book" Smalltalk-80, there might be some
slight variation in more modern Smalltalk implementations/dialects.

Now, is the Ruby or Smalltalk approach 'better'  I guess if I had my
druthers, I guess I differ a bit from my friend David A. Black here,
and I'd prefer it if Ruby were a bit more Smalltalk like here, and
Ruby 1.9 has made some steps in that direction.

But it is what it is.

-- 
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale

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