[#16611] lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Dave Thomas <dave@...>

This is one of those e-mails that I know from the start to be futile, =20=

148 messages 2008/05/01
[#16661] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2008/05/05

On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 12:26:47PM +0900, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#16662] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/05

Hi --

[#16663] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — ts <decoux@...> 2008/05/05

David A. Black wrote:

[#16664] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/05

Hi --

[#16682] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — ara howard <ara.t.howard@...> 2008/05/08

[#16684] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Michael Neumann <mneumann@...> 2008/05/08

ara howard wrote:

[#16687] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/08

Hi --

[#16691] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "ara.t.howard" <ara.t.howard@...> 2008/05/08

[#16692] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/08

Hi --

[#16695] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "ara.t.howard" <ara.t.howard@...> 2008/05/08

[#16705] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Evan Phoenix <evan@...> 2008/05/11

Not to throw the whole thread into a tizzy again, but why again is:

[#16708] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@...> 2008/05/11

Hi,

[#16720] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/11

Hi,

[#16721] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/12

Hi --

[#16722] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/12

Hi,

[#16723] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Evan Phoenix <evan@...> 2008/05/12

[#16724] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/12

Hi,

[#16726] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Nathan Weizenbaum <nex342@...> 2008/05/12

What about "fn" or "fun", for "function"?

[#16728] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/12

Hi,

[#16731] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Evan Phoenix <evan@...> 2008/05/12

[#16732] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/12

Hi,

[#16759] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/13

Hi --

[#16766] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/14

Hi,

[#16784] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2008/05/18

Hi --

[#16795] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Nate_Wiger@... 2008/05/19

On Wed, 14 May 2008, David A. Black wrote:

[#16797] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/19

Hi,

[#16798] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Christopher Gill" <gilltots@...> 2008/05/19

how about an uppercase lambda (instead of the usual lowercase one)

[#16802] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Suraj N. Kurapati" <sunaku@...> 2008/05/20

Christopher Gill wrote:

[#16843] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Suraj N. Kurapati" <sunaku@...> 2008/05/22

Suraj N. Kurapati wrote:

[#16846] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Berger, Daniel" <Daniel.Berger@...> 2008/05/22

=20

[#16854] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Rados=B3aw_Bu=B3at?=" <radek.bulat@...> 2008/05/22

T24gVGh1LCBNYXkgMjIsIDIwMDggYXQgNTozNyBQTSwgQmVyZ2VyLCBEYW5pZWwgPERhbmllbC5C

[#16857] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Jeremy McAnally" <jeremymcanally@...> 2008/05/23

RXZlbiB0aG91Z2ggSSBzZWUgdGhlIHVzZWZ1bG5lc3MsIHRoYXQncyBqdXN0IHVnbHkuCgotLUpl

[#16874] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — Nate_Wiger@... 2008/05/23

"Jeremy McAnally" <jeremymcanally@gmail.com> wrote on 05/22/2008 05:35:01=20

[#16875] Re: lambda, ->, haskell, and so on — "Nikolai Weibull" <now@...> 2008/05/23

2008/5/23 <Nate_Wiger@playstation.sony.com>:

[#16886] lambda with normal block syntax — "Eric Mahurin" <eric.mahurin@...>

This patch is an independent but related one to my previous one. It can be

64 messages 2008/05/25
[#16895] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16900] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — "Eric Mahurin" <eric.mahurin@...> 2008/05/26

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@ruby-lang.org>

[#16901] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16902] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — "Suraj N. Kurapati" <sunaku@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16903] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16904] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/05/26

[#16905] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16907] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/05/26

[#16912] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/05/26

Hi,

[#16920] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — David Flanagan <david@...> 2008/05/26

If I may, here are two entries from the ChangeLog file:

[#16922] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/05/26

[#16927] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — David Flanagan <david@...> 2008/05/26

Dave Thomas wrote:

[#16928] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/05/26

[#16929] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — David Flanagan <david@...> 2008/05/26

Dave Thomas wrote:

[#16931] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/05/27

[#16946] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — David Flanagan <david@...> 2008/05/27

Dave Thomas wrote:

[#16947] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — James Gray <james@...> 2008/05/27

On May 27, 2008, at 12:33 PM, David Flanagan wrote:

[#16949] Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax — David Flanagan <david@...> 2008/05/27

James Gray wrote:

Re: [PATCH] lambda with normal block syntax

From: "Suraj N. Kurapati" <sunaku@...>
Date: 2008-05-28 03:24:49 UTC
List: ruby-core #16961
David Flanagan wrote:
> Well of course--its Matz's language.  But let's engage the debate with 
> reasonable expectations.  And I'm just trying to point out that given 
> the stage of the 1.9 release, it is probably unreasonable to expect an 
> alternative to -> in 1.9.  The most that can reasonably be hoped for, in 
> my opinion, is the removal of the -> syntax.

Why is the addition of bare blocks considered so daunting?  Unlike 
the removal of ->, the addition of bare blocks is *fully* backwards 
compatible with both Ruby 1.8.x and 1.9.0-x!

For instance, whereas early adopters of 1.9.0-x need to change their 
code after -> removal, nobody needs to change their code after the 
addition of bare blocks.

I would *really* like the addition of bare blocks to be considered 
for Ruby 1.9.  This addition finally makes "functional programming" 
invisible to the user by making blocks into first-class citizens 
(literals) in Ruby syntax.

Just think of the developer mind-share this would capture, as Ruby's 
functional programming capabilities can be *explained* much more 
easily to a newcomer (without scaring them away[1] with "lambda"):

   Ruby has *code blocks* -- which are blocks of code that you can
   pass around and execute whenever and wherever you want.

This kind of explanation is reinforced by the fact that users *see* 
blocks being used _everywhere_:  iterators, thread bodies, etc.

Furthermore, what follows the POLS more than being able to *snatch* 
a block (yes, with your bare hands) and place it (and reuse it) 
anywhere in your code:

   a = [1, 2, 3]
   b = [4, 5, 6]

   # here's a traditional code block
   a.each {|x| puts 2 * x }

   # why can't I snatch it and reuse it?
   code_block = {|x| puts 2 * x }
   a.each &code_block

   # if code blocks are really literal functions...
   doubler = {|x| 2 * x }   # *snatch*
   printer = {|x| puts x }  # *snatch*

   a.each(printer(doubler)) # place

This kind of classic function composition, is made so simple and 
intuitive with bare blocks:  they are a fundamental and highly 
idiomatic building block in the Ruby language today.

To testify, I've been playing with bare blocks for the past two days 
and I find them to be an absolute treat to use, especially in the 
do..end form because the "do" gives a strong clue the code block is 
a function:

   # an "adder" *do*es something with x and y:
   # it adds x and y and returns the sum
   adder = do |x, y|
     x + y
   end

   # call the "adder" and ask it to *do* something with 1 and 2.
   # but what does the "adder" do?  see above
   adder.call(1, 2) #=> 3

Thanks for your consideration.

[1] Of course, this has been my unfortunate experience of trying to 
explain what lambda is to newcomers from C++:  their eyes 
glazed-over, thinking that it was mathematics (groan!) I guess.

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