[#18436] [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Yugui (Yuki Sonoda)" <yugui@...>

Hi all,

81 messages 2008/09/02
[#18667] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Yusuke ENDOH" <mame@...> 2008/09/17

Hi,

[#18847] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Yugui (Yuki Sonoda)" <yugui@...> 2008/09/24

Hi, Yusuke

[#18848] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Yusuke ENDOH" <mame@...> 2008/09/24

Hi,

[#18886] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2008/09/25

[#18889] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — SASADA Koichi <ko1@...> 2008/09/25

Ryan Davis wrote:

[#18906] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/09/25

[#18908] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — SASADA Koichi <ko1@...> 2008/09/25

Dave Thomas wrote:

[#19032] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2008/09/30

[#19036] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Jim Weirich <jim.weirich@...> 2008/09/30

[#19039] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2008/09/30

[#19042] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2008/09/30

[#19195] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2008/10/08

[#19202] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Austin Ziegler" <halostatue@...> 2008/10/08

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:05 AM, Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote=

[#19203] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Paul Brannan <pbrannan@...> 2008/10/08

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 09:28:22PM +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#18452] [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — "Roger Pack" <rogerpack2005@...>

Would it be possible to have a few patches applied before freeze [if

27 messages 2008/09/04
[#18471] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/06

Hi,

[#18490] Re: [ANN] Ruby 1.9.1 feature freeze — Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@...> 2008/09/08

Hi,

[#18486] Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...>

Firstly, I apologise if I am going over old ground here - I haven't been

39 messages 2008/09/08
[#18492] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/08

Hi,

[#18494] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/08

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:45:36 +1000, Yukihiro Matsumoto

[#18499] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — "NARUSE, Yui" <naruse@...> 2008/09/08

Hi,

[#18500] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@...> 2008/09/08

On Sep 8, 2008, at 10:43 AM, NARUSE, Yui wrote:

[#18515] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — Urabe Shyouhei <shyouhei@...> 2008/09/09

# First off, I'm neutral to this issue

[#18530] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@...> 2008/09/10

On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Urabe Shyouhei wrote:

[#18533] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — Tanaka Akira <akr@...> 2008/09/10

In article <3119E5AB-AEC8-4FEE-B2FA-8C75482E0E9D@sun.com>,

[#18504] Re: Ruby 1.9 strings & character encoding — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/09

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 03:43:54 +1000, NARUSE, Yui <naruse@airemix.jp> wrote:

[#18572] Working on CSV's Encoding Support — James Gray <james@...>

I'm trying to get the standard CSV library ready for m17n in Ruby

23 messages 2008/09/13
[#18575] Re: Working on CSV's Encoding Support — James Gray <james@...> 2008/09/14

On Sep 13, 2008, at 5:39 PM, James Gray wrote:

[#18576] Re: Working on CSV's Encoding Support — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/14

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:48:47 +1000, James Gray <james@grayproductions.net>

[#18640] Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...>

Hi,

89 messages 2008/09/17
[#18643] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — James Gray <james@...> 2008/09/17

On Sep 16, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Michael Selig wrote:

[#18647] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/17

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:51:14 +1000, James Gray <james@grayproductions.net>

[#18658] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — James Gray <james@...> 2008/09/17

On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:21 PM, Michael Selig wrote:

[#18660] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "NARUSE, Yui" <naruse@...> 2008/09/17

Hi,

[#18663] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Matthias Wächter <matthias@...> 2008/09/17

On 9/17/2008 3:39 PM, NARUSE, Yui wrote:

[#18666] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/17

Hi,

[#18728] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Martin Duerst <duerst@...> 2008/09/19

At 00:01 08/09/18, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#18729] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/19

Hi,

[#18732] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/19

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:24:41 +1000, Yukihiro Matsumoto

[#18734] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/19

Oops, I misfired my mail reader; the following is the right one:

[#18751] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/20

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:52:30 +1000, Yukihiro Matsumoto

[#18761] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/20

Hi,

[#18774] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...> 2008/09/21

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:05:30 +1000, Yukihiro Matsumoto

[#18776] Re: Character encodings - a less radical suggestion — Martin Duerst <duerst@...> 2008/09/22

Hello Michael,

[#18664] Re: Character encodings - a radical suggestion — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2008/09/17

Hi,

[#18762] [Feature #578] add method to disassemble Proc objects — Roger Pack <redmine@...>

Feature #578: add method to disassemble Proc objects

17 messages 2008/09/20

[#18872] [RIP] Guy Decoux. — "Jean-Fran輟is Tr穗" <jftran@...>

Hello,

14 messages 2008/09/24

[#18899] refute_{equal, match, nil, same} is not useful — Fujioka <fuj@...>

Hi,

27 messages 2008/09/25

[#18937] A stupid question... — Dave Thomas <dave@...>

Just what was wrong with Test::Unit? Sure, it was slightly bloated.

25 messages 2008/09/25
[#18941] Re: A stupid question... — "Berger, Daniel" <Daniel.Berger@...> 2008/09/25

> -----Original Message-----

[#19004] Let Ruby be Ruby — Trans <transfire@...> 2008/09/28

[#18986] miniunit problems and release of Ruby 1.9.0-5 — "Yugui (Yuki Sonoda)" <yugui@...>

Hi,

14 messages 2008/09/27

[#19043] Ruby is "stealing" names from operating system API:s — "Johan Holmberg" <johan556@...>

Hi!

13 messages 2008/09/30

[ruby-core:18640] Character encodings - a radical suggestion

From: "Michael Selig" <michael.selig@...>
Date: 2008-09-17 01:20:13 UTC
List: ruby-core #18640
Hi,

You might at first glance think that this post should go to ruby-dev, but  
please read to the end!

I have been pulling my hair out trying to convert a relatively simple app  
to support m17n under Ruby 1.9 to see what is involved. I need to support  
all common locales worldwide, and data can also be stored in UTF-8 or  
UTF-16. I was hoping that Ruby 1.9 was going to take the hard work out of  
this for me. It has to a certain extent, but UTF-16 is the problem - it  
breaks so many things, due to its "ASCII incompatibility" (using Ruby's  
definition). I can't even do simple things like pull out fields and  
substitute into another string without testing "encoding compatibility".  
Something as simple as:

	puts "The value is #{val}"

fails if val is UTF-16 data.

At one stage I got so frustrated that I was even thinking about going back  
to Python :-(
So I have ended up transcoding any UTF-16 data to UTF-8, and now things  
are going much better.

Maybe I am doing something wrong - if so please suggest something I can do  
other than transcode the UTF-16.

But this has lead me to look back at the issues with UTF-16 I have hit,  
and to think about all the internal code in Ruby to handle "ASCII  
incompatible" encodings, and the overhead involved with supporting it.

And I think that other Ruby programmers may end up doing what I have done  
- avoid using UTF-16 internally because it is too hard.

So my radical suggestion is this:

Remove internal support for non-ASCII encodings completely, and when  
reading/writing UTF-16 (and UTF-32) files automatically transcode to/from  
UTF-8.

My reasons:

- String & Regexp operations should just "work" without the programmer  
worrying about encoding comaptibility (I think!)
- The programmer only has to think about character encodings at the  
"interfaces" (files, network interfaces) not throughout the program logic
- To my knowledge UTF-16 & UTF-32 are the only "non-ASCII compatible" as  
Ruby defines it
- To my knowledge no one actually uses UTF-16 or UTF-32 as a locale
- I would avoid having to use ugly modes to open a file like  
"r:UTF-16LE:UTF-8" (very minor)
- Ruby's internal code would be simpler & cleaner and therefore probably  
faster and easier to maintain

Maybe I have got this all wrong - I am relatively new to m17n!

Cheers
Mike

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