From: "Sean O'Dell" <sean@...[REMOVE_THE_SPAM]>
Date: 2003-08-20T15:47:13+09:00
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> Sean O'Dell wrote:
> 
>>A billion people could be programming in Perl right now, and that
>>wouldn't mean a thing because the pressure to produce code might have
>>them locked in and unable to make a switch to another script language.
> 
> Actually, it would prove something.  It would prove that Perl has industrial
> incumbency.  Then the question would be, is Ruby denting that incumbency?
> Why or why not?  We discuss questions like this on the marketing-python
> mailing list.  And no, I'm not a Pythonista.  My interest in the language is
> exploratory, I'm uncommitted.

I'm really not interested in the discussion in another context.  I 
suggested, as one weight to throw on the scale, that the original poster 
check to see how many people have left Ruby for another language.  In 
that context, it doesn't matter how many people are locked into 
Perl/Python/etc.  If they're locked in, by default their opinion on 
switching away from Ruby to something else is void.

>>It's those that have made the switch that are most interesting to a
>>person evaluating Ruby.  Who is leaving Perl for Python?  Who is
>>leaving Python for Ruby.  Who has left Ruby for Perl or Python?
> 
> I agree it's more interesting.  But volume of mindshare, and growth of
> mindshare, is interesting to both industrialists and archivists.  What is
> Ruby's future?

This is out of the context of my suggestion.  That's another property to 
consider, and a valid one, but it has nothing to do with finding people 
who have switched away from Ruby.

>>The people who code at work and are locked-in to some language and
>>don't enjoy programming enough to do it in their off-time are people
>>who, I think, will have little insight to offer.  Their lack of input
> about
>>Ruby can be safely ignored.  =)
> 
> 
> To be honest I find that a bizarre prejudice.  People have to program both
> at work and in their leisure time to have relevant opinions?  Surely not.  I
> for one have life pursuits other than programming!  I'm not interested in
> languages that I have to relegate to a hobby, I'm interested in languages
> that allow me to get prime time work done more quickly.  Part of that means,
> I think, convincing the suits who might otherwise force you to keep using
> Perl.  Again, we talk about these kinds of issues on marketing-python.

If you're interested in knowing why people have left Ruby for another 
language, as a consideration to help you evaluate it, I would ignore the 
opinions of people who have no opportunity to even try Ruby in the first 
place.  If you really want the insights of people who have come and 
gone, you have to first group out the people who at least have a choice 
to do so.  How can you factor in the opinion of a person on the subject 
of switching to/from Ruby when they are locked into another language at 
work and don't bother to try Ruby in their off-time?

	Sean O'Dell