Re: Proc Question

On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 05:59:04AM +0900, Chris Pine wrote:
> The block parameter list is closer to parallel assignment than a method
> call. e.g. the following are pretty much the same:
> ----------------------------
> 
> I don't know what you mean by that.  They are all three similar, as is this:
> 
>   irb(main):003:0> a = [3,4,5]
>   => [3, 4, 5]
>   irb(main):004:0> b = [1,2,*a]
>   => [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> 
> Because they all use arrays (as I understand it).

I thought what you were highlighting was the difference between the syntax
of method calls and proc parameters. There are several differences in the
way arity is handled, for example. I was just pointing out that if you
compare proc parameters to parallel assignments, rather than method calls,
they are identical.

I too feel there could perhaps be a more unified underlying handling, and
indeed I do get caught out occasionally by

    foo.each do |v| .... end

where foo is a hash, and I end up getting [key,value] passed in when I would
rather have an argument error. But pragmatically I see cases where this is
also useful.

> The beginning of a method binds the parameters to the arguments passed in (I
> hope I'm getting my vocabulary right) in exactly the same way, again, as I
> understand it.

They don't work in exactly the same way. For example:

  def test(a)
    puts a.inspect
  end
  test(1,2)       #>> ArgumentError: wrong # of arguments(2 for 1)

  test = proc{|a| puts a.inspect}
  test.call(1,2)  #>> [1, 2]

> ----------------------------
> Ruby doesn't have "functions" - it does have Methods and Procs.
> ----------------------------
> 
> What do you think a proc is?  You can even create one with `lambda'!  We all
> agree that they are closures, right?  Closures are functions (with certain
> properties, of course) by any definition I have ever seen.

I think perhaps we are just coming from different backgrounds - yours
mathematics/computer science, mine programming (and low-level at that)

In C, a function is a named procedure which takes arguments, performs some
operations, and (optionally) returns a value. In Ruby, that's a method. To
you, the word 'function' may mean something else.

Ruby doesn't in itself have anything called a 'function' that I am aware of,
so if you choose to apply that label to a Proc then fine; but I choose to
apply it to a Method :-)

> A proc is just a
> wrapped function, and you call it (the function) with the `call' method
> (i.e. calling the proc's method).

And then you can also argue that a method is just a wrapped proc; this is
explicit if you say

  self.class.instance_eval { define_method(:foo, proc { |x| x*2 }) }

rather than the more sugary

  def foo(x)
    x*2
  end

Once it has become a Method it gains additional properties though, as you
point out below.

> Methods, on the other hand, seem quite different to me (even if they are
> implemented with procs much like parameter lists are implemented with
> arrays).  It seems like, instead of being bound to any particular
> environment, they are just bound "to the object".  Plus, they are shared
> between all objects of that class... that's a big difference.  You would
> need a different proc for each object to get the same effect.

Sure. You have instance methods shared between all objects of that class,
and you have singleton methods associated with a single object. I wasn't
trying to say that Procs and Methods were the same, as they clearly
aren't... sorry if it came across that way!

Regards,

Brian.