From: "Dwayne Smurdon @ DNA Media Pro" Date: 2003-01-27T15:53:01+09:00 Subject: Organizing our efforts, as well as the modules itself. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C2C5A6.582778A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WOW! It's amazing to me to see such passion about the organization of a Web site. I am new to Ruby, and as a result, new to this discussion group. I posted for the first time yesterday (and recieved an excellent resolution to my problem). I also noticed Outlook was sending in Outlook Rich Text Format to the list, so I *hope* I have made the appropriate changes otherwise it's a pain when reading via the web site. I did go to the discussion list web site (which I find INCREDIBLY slow) and read a the last few days of posts. This organization of the modules seems to be a hot topic and I do have a few observations, comments, and a few opinions. First, I would like to start off with a few questions since I'm jumping in the middle here (Although, over time it will feel more like the beginning :). I hope my questions, comments, etc.. are valuable--that is my goal. I am a marketing person by profession, but I love to develop in perl and Java. So, you can see why I love Ruby -- I am finding that it has some of the best of both worlds (with a lot of potential). I hope nobody minds my pointed questions and comments, especially since they are UNinvited. My questions, comments, and opinions.... 1) Who is /responsible/ for the actual DESIGN of the reorganization? (not necessarily the web development) a) Has anyone asked/been assigned this responsibility? b) Who is the final decision maker(s) (after evaluating the excellent suggestions from the list) c) Who will do the development? 2) If noone already has, it seems it would be productive if someone (or perhaps 2 people) volunteer to fill the lead role in finding available domains for ruby. It does not necessarily have to be regiestered in this person's name, nor should they have to pay for it. I'll pony up a few bucks myself. Once a domain czar is appointed, we all could send off-list emails with suggestions to them. After determining the best 5-10 that are available to us, the domain czar would post a list and we can do quick vote. Also, can we set a date for this to be complete? I'd suggest 30 days from now. 3) Has the target audience for the RAA web site (is this the right way to refer to it?) been *clearly* defined? It seems that until that is done, it will be difficult, if not impossible to come to a consensus on the best design. 4) I am comparing to CPAN, because it is something for us to all relate to and base our discission on it's strengths and weaknesses. This is an opinion, but I feel strongly about it. The CPAN web site sucks. I give it an F. The CPAN module rocks in terms of features, but sucks in terms of usability. In my humble opinion it is somewhat cryptic and could use a nice GUI. If there is a GUI, I have not seen it, but would consider retracting my comments about it's usability. 5) In terms of the hiearchy of CPAN and its modules, I have no real opinion. I see this as decisions to made by the hard core developers who use it everyday. But, I believe the GUI design and *A* web site design needs to have input from newbie developers, NON-developers, and people who are interested in marketing the use of the language and not just using it for development. Please note I said *A* web design above, because of course there should also be a web design primarily for developers. I also think these designs might need to be separate discussions threads -- even if some of the same people are involved in both. Should we get some folks to volunteer for each group and come back with a few proposals (specifications)? I think we should be able to complete this in less than a week or two. And of course search should be right on top of the web page, and a link to an advanced search. 6) Modules *need* the ability to be indexed for multiple categories. I think this is apparent to all of us. I think 3 is a fine place to start and we can allow for more/less as time goes on. Perhaps we can also have a 'keywords' attribute for each module. This field can be indexed and searched and we can determine if the results of keyword matches appear above or below the resulting matches for module categories. Perhaps it's a search option in "Advanced Search" :). 7) Can we create a few different discussion lists? I suggest a different list for: * the development of the Ruby language itself * the RAA archives, marketing the language,etc.. * Ruby language questions/answers -- This is a start to be more user friendly in my opinion. Sorry for the long post. Again I just want to be helpful in promoting Ruby and locating documentation for it --which is a challenge for me already. :) -Dwayne ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C2C5A6.582778A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Organizing our efforts, as well as the modules itself.

WOW!  It's amazing to me to see such passion = about the organization of a Web site.  I am new to Ruby, and as a = result, new to this discussion group.  I posted for the first time = yesterday (and recieved an excellent resolution to my problem).  I = also noticed Outlook was sending in Outlook Rich Text Format to the = list, so I *hope* I have made the appropriate changes otherwise it's a = pain when reading via the web site.

I did go to the discussion list web site (which I find = INCREDIBLY slow) and read a the last few days of posts.  This = organization of the modules seems to be a hot topic and I do have a few = observations, comments, and a few opinions.

First, I would like to start off with a few questions = since I'm jumping in the middle here (Although, over time it will feel = more like the beginning :).

I hope my questions, comments, etc.. are = valuable--that is my goal.  I am a marketing person by profession, = but I love to develop in perl and Java.  So, you can see why I love = Ruby -- I am finding that it has some of the best of both worlds (with a = lot of potential).  I hope nobody minds my pointed questions and = comments, especially since they are UNinvited. 

My questions, comments, and opinions....

1) Who is /responsible/ for the actual DESIGN of the = reorganization?  (not necessarily the web development)
        a) Has = anyone asked/been assigned this responsibility?
        b) Who is = the final decision maker(s) (after evaluating the excellent suggestions = from the list)
        c) Who = will do the development?

2) If noone already has, it seems it would be = productive if someone (or perhaps 2 people) volunteer to fill the lead = role in finding available domains for ruby.  It does not = necessarily have to be regiestered in this person's name, nor should = they have to pay for it.  I'll pony up a few bucks myself.  = Once a domain czar is appointed, we all could send off-list emails with = suggestions to them.  After determining the best 5-10 that are = available to us, the domain czar would post a list and we can do quick = vote.  Also, can we set a date for this to be complete?  I'd = suggest 30 days from now.

3) Has the target audience for the RAA web site (is = this the right way to refer to it?) been *clearly* defined?  It = seems that until that is done, it will be difficult, if not impossible = to come to a consensus on the best design.

4)  I am comparing to CPAN, because it is = something for us to all relate to and base our discission on it's = strengths and weaknesses.  This is an opinion, but I feel strongly = about it.  The CPAN web site sucks.  I give it an F.  The = CPAN module rocks in terms of features, but sucks in terms of = usability.  In my humble opinion it is somewhat cryptic and could = use a nice GUI.  If there is a GUI, I have not seen it, but would = consider retracting my comments about it's usability. 

5) In terms of the hiearchy of CPAN and its modules, I = have no real opinion.  I see this as decisions to made by the hard = core developers who use it everyday.  But, I believe the GUI design = and *A* web site design needs to have input from newbie developers, = NON-developers, and people who are interested in marketing the use of = the language and not just using it for development.  Please note I = said *A* web design above, because of course there should also be a web = design primarily for developers.

I also think these designs might need to be separate = discussions threads -- even if some of the same people are involved in = both.  Should we get some folks to volunteer for each group and = come back with a few proposals (specifications)?  I think we should = be able to complete this in less than a week or two.

And of course search should be right on top of the web = page, and a link to an advanced search.

6) Modules *need* the ability to be indexed for = multiple categories.  I think this is apparent to all of us.  = I think 3 is a fine place to start and we can allow for more/less as = time goes on.  Perhaps we can also have a 'keywords' attribute for = each module.  This field can be indexed and searched and we can = determine if the results of keyword matches appear above or below the = resulting matches for module categories.  Perhaps it's a search = option in "Advanced Search" :).

7) Can we create a few different discussion = lists?  I suggest a different list for:
* the development of the Ruby language itself
* the RAA archives, marketing the = language,etc..
* Ruby language questions/answers
-- This is a start to be more user friendly in my = opinion.

Sorry for the long post.  Again I just want to be = helpful in promoting Ruby and locating documentation for it --which is a = challenge for me already. :)


-Dwayne

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