From: Jonan Scheffler Date: 2012-12-28T03:11:25+09:00 Subject: Re: Ruby Association Certified Ruby Programmer --e89a8f64675968799604d1d96621 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There are a lot of ways to express that idea without implying the asker is a stupid, crap programmer. Be nice, it's really not that hard. On Dec 27, 2012 10:02 AM, "Peter Hickman" wrote: > On 27 December 2012 16:33, Robert Klemme wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Matt Lawrence >> wrote: >> > I have noticed that this list has been taking on a rather nasty tone >> lately. >> >> I wouldn't call it "nasty" - still the tone has degraded. There are a >> few other changes I have observed. >> >> - Discussions of advanced topics almost vanished these days. >> - There are a lot beginner questions. >> - There are also quite a few questions which either look like >> homework or can be answered easily from documentation or testing with >> IRB. >> > > They are less requests for help than demands that we do their work for > them. "Eternal September" springs to mind. We get emails from outsourcing > companies that advertise X years of RoR experience available for low prices > and I have the feeling that some of the posts we see here are from the same > people who have misrepresented themselves to a client to get the work. > > > As a long time Ruby user and memeber of the Ruby community, I don't think >> > this is a good thing. >> >> Certainly not. >> > > You can only get out what you put in and too many of the posts feel like > this list is a "first resort" rather than a "last resort". If they can put > some serious effort into their questions (too many seem to assume that we > are psychic) then I am willing to spend time helping on or off list. > Helping people is an act of charity, I am not obligated to help everyone > who can't be bothered to do the most rudimentary of Google searches and I > am not obligated to suffer fools. > > I replied to Sean Westfall because I believe that having him spend $150 on > a certificate will do nothing for him in becoming a Ruby developer. At > least he had put some effort into the question "how can I become a Ruby > developer" and he deserved some help. His actual question was "Is it > worth the time?" and the answer is "No". But to say that is a disservice, > it needs to be explained. But the assumption that a certificate will be of > any help is so wrong there is nothing good to say about it. > > --e89a8f64675968799604d1d96621 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are a lot of ways to express that idea without implyin= g the asker is a stupid, crap programmer.

Be nice, it's really not that hard.

On Dec 27, 2012 10:02 AM, "Peter Hickman&qu= ot; <peterhickman386@g= ooglemail.com> wrote:
On 27 December 2012 16:33, Robert Klemme <shortc= utter@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Matt Lawrence <matt@technoronin.co= m> wrote:
> I have noticed that this list has been taking on a rather nasty tone l= ately.

I wouldn't call it "nasty" - still the tone has degrade= d. =A0There are a
few other changes I have observed.

=A0- Discussions of advanced topics almost vanished these days.
=A0- There are a lot beginner questions.
=A0- There are also quite a few questions which either look like
homework or can be answered easily from documentation or testing with
IRB.

They are less requests for help than deman= ds that we do their work for them. "Eternal September" springs to= mind. We get emails from outsourcing companies that advertise X years of R= oR experience available for low prices and I have the feeling that some of = the posts we see here are from the same people who have misrepresented them= selves to a client to get the work.

> As a long time Ruby user and meme= ber of the Ruby community, I don't think
> this is a good thing.

Certainly not.

You can only get o= ut what you put in and too many of the posts feel like this list is a "= ;first resort" rather than a "last resort". If they can put = some serious effort into their questions (too many seem to assume that we a= re psychic) then I am willing to spend time helping on or off list. Helping= people is an act of charity, I am not obligated to help everyone who can&#= 39;t be bothered to do the most=A0rudimentary=A0of Google searches and I am= not obligated to suffer fools.

I replied to=A0Sean Westfall because I=A0believe=A0that= having him spend $150 on a certificate will do nothing for him in becoming= a Ruby developer. At least he had put some effort into the question "= how can I become a Ruby developer" and he deserved some help. His actu= al question was "Is it worth the time?" and the answer is "No". But to= say that is a disservice, it needs to be explained. But the assumption tha= t a certificate will be of any help is so wrong there is nothing good to sa= y about it.

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