From: David Masover <ninja@...>
Date: 2011-06-12T07:39:12+09:00
Subject: Re: PSA: Ilias is Crazy

On Saturday, June 11, 2011 04:14:17 AM Stu wrote:
> Since this has escalated to giving the guy a thread with his name in
> the title; would someone mind linking some of his more prolific
> trolling. Any hijacked threads? Common trollish behavior such as
> insult a person directly. T

He's insulted me pretty directly most of the time he's actually responded to 
me. He's also made legal threats when people point out his trollish behavior.

I might tolerate these if he brought anything useful to the discussion, but 
with him, it isn't a discussion. He'll blatantly ignore or strawman anything 
he doesn't like, which means unless you present him with _precisely_ what he's 
looking for (and he's usually looking for things which are at best nonsensical 
and usually very bad ideas), don't expect him to read or understand your post.

> He definitely has an abrasive way of expressing himself but far be it
> for me to judge him based on his lack of socialization.

It's not just a lack of socialization, it's a complete unwillingness to learn. 
That is, an unwillingness to learn much about Ruby (beyond his latest 
"BARRIER"), or anything about basic etiquette. Indeed, these are exactly the 
sort of things which he'll ignore as "offtopic".

I wouldn't judge someone for, say, top-posting, like you did here. But if I 
pointed out that you really shouldn't top-post, and you should quote the 
relevant parts rather than the entire email, I would hope you wouldn't respond 
with "Quit being so unprofessional! It's my right to top-post! Anyone should 
be able to see in five minutes that top-posting is correct! If you tell me 
again, I'll sue!"

And that's toned down a bit from what we usually get from Ilias. Oh, I'm 
sorry, not "sue", but "Here's a link to defamation laws, and I'll be forced to 
'take action' if you know what I mean, wink wink, nod nod."

> Telling people not to respond to someone sounds like some sort of
> elitist click or beginning of an association fallacy. It also proves a
> lack of diplomacy, tolerance, and empathy from those imposing such a
> ridiculous crusade.

It's pragmatic, and it's based on his actions, not association.

I actually somewhat agree with you in that I'm likely to continue to respond 
as I have the time. After all, every response is an opportunity for Ilias to 
grow up.

But he's far from harmless. We're spending our time and energy dealing with 
him, instead of people who actually have real problems and are willing to work 
with us to solve them.

If he showed the slightest willingness to learn, if he "had time" to work with 
us instead of against us, then replying to him would make sense, because he 
would actually improve with each exchange. There's no reason that, even at 
this point, he can't become a respected member of the community, someone who 
actually does make a positive contribution.

But he's not interested in that.

> Think about the community proverb: Matz is nice, so we are nice.
> 
> From my observations this entails these idioms:
> 
> Matz does not alienate llias, So neither should I
> Matz practices tolerance, So shall I
> Matz is diplomatic, So am I

Here's what Matz had to say:

http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/1893190#1004250

Perhaps that is diplomatic, tolerant, and not alienating. If so, sure, I'd 
love to see more responses like that -- but not as much as I wish people like 
Matz didn't have to waste their time with people like Ilias.

In any case, it certainly didn't seem nice, nor does Ilias deserve nice at 
this point. He's lucky people are still willing to tolerate him.