From: Todd Benson Date: 2009-06-26T04:53:10+09:00 Subject: Re: Time for a ruby-announce list? On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:28 AM, trans wrote: > > > On Jun 24, 4:12 pm, Gregory Brown wrote: > >> Man, I really wish there was a parallel universe where you and Trans >> could be happy with how things are going, so that we don't need to go >> through the same cycle of: >> >> Trans: I want thing Foo >> Rest of RubyTalk: This has come up many times before, and here's what happened >> Robert: Hey come on, don't be hard on Trans. >> >> I'm really not trying to be rude here, the archive shows this pattern >> clearly, and I think it's problematic. > > That's absolutely laughable. The real pattern here is: Trans earnestly > asks if Foo would be a good idea, and then "the gang" devolves the > conversation into a Trans bash. Heaven help anyone else who might > agree, even a smidgen, with Trans, like poor Robert here. > > The whole situation has become intolerable. It's so bad that I have to > tell people, when I submit a patch or otherwise help with someone > else's code, not to mention me with regards to it for fear that > they're project might get tainted by the slander of Ryan and friend's > for having any association with me. > > I even went to RubyConf once, but had to turn around and leave b/c I > have felt so eviscerated in this public forum --I could not stomach > the thought that the same might happen in person. > > The fact is, your guy's behavior is ignorant, overtly rude, > disingenuous, condescending, cliquish and childish. You are simply > bullies. You do not earnestly engage in conversation. In this very > thread there were points made that none of you ever addressed, and > instead simply repeated the same broken argument --before devolving > into your usual public circle jerk. > > It is untenable. And I have had enough. It is no longer important > enough to me to put up with it. So I am exiting --stage left. It > greatly saddens me to do so as some of my projects were, after such a > great deal of time and work, reaching a level of solidity that I was > looking forward to sharing them with a broader audience. But who > really cares right? You'd rather I be in a parallel universe. > > I don't need to go on any further. Other's have said it all before. > > What Zed said [http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html]. The thing though, too though is, effectively attracting new and interesting code from potentially great coders may be harder. The [ANN] allows this opportunity in a friendly way. Now, on Trans' talk on pointing netiquette fingers is partly true, but I've found this rather rare on this list. I go through the mails visually, so I can see the timing of what's going on and when. I sometimes get to see a correlation between questions/answers and announcements. I could write a script that does the same. But, it really is easier to either set up a filter (something that I will never do, because I might miss something really fascinating) or just comb through on a regular basis. Honestly, it takes me about 10 minutes to manually pick through them if I do it every day, and another 30 if I want to follow the good conversations. I guess it comes down to how granular you want it. I could suggest, for example, the crazy proposition that people have different mail addresses for different lists, but I'm sure I'd be laughed at ;) I'm on the fence. Todd