[#335632] SOAP - issue with openssl verification failure — Venkat Alla <spinhoo2000@...>

I have the following code in a script that I am trying to use at work -

10 messages 2009/05/01

[#335755] Should I upgrade Ruby from 1.8.5 to 1.8.7? — Cali Wildman <caliwildman2004-info@...>

I just upgraded to Rails 2.3.2 but my Ruby is still 1.8.5. Rails 2.3.2

23 messages 2009/05/04

[#335777] my logroll code, please critique — Derek Smith <derekbellnersmith@...>

My goal is to keep 10 files each at 100Mb. Please critique and suggest

12 messages 2009/05/05

[#335842] '=||' — James Byrne <byrnejb@...>

Can someone point out to me where exactly in the API I find a discussion

18 messages 2009/05/05
[#335843] Re: '=||' — Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@...> 2009/05/05

On 5 May 2009, at 20:51, James Byrne wrote:

[#336031] Superclass of eigenclass — Danny O cuiv <danny.ocuiv@...>

On page 261 of The Ruby Programming Language, they state:

30 messages 2009/05/07
[#336052] Re: Superclass of eigenclass — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/05/07

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Danny O cuiv <danny.ocuiv@gmail.com> wrote:

[#336056] Re: Superclass of eigenclass — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/05/07

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote:

[#336061] Ruby memory usage — Pete Hodgson <ruby-forum@...>

Hi Folks,

23 messages 2009/05/07

[#336087] File over tcp? with out using net/ftp — Bigmac Turdsplash <i8igmac@...>

Im trying to send a file back and forth between a client.rb and

12 messages 2009/05/07

[#336160] CGI help — Jeff Leggett <hikerguy@...>

So, I am trying ot read the contents of a file and format the contents

19 messages 2009/05/08

[#336168] ruby string slice/[] w/ range, weird end behavior — Gary Yngve <gary.yngve@...>

First the docs:

17 messages 2009/05/08
[#336169] Re: ruby string slice/[] w/ range, weird end behavior — Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@...> 2009/05/08

On 9 May 2009, at 00:26, Gary Yngve wrote:

[#336205] converting UTF-8 to entities like &#x525B; — Jian Lin <winterheat@...>

15 messages 2009/05/09

[#336385] Any current preprocessor/Ruby language add-ons? — "C. Dagnon" <c-soc-rubyforum@...>

This is kind of a wide-ranging question but for some fairly specific

16 messages 2009/05/12

[#336411] Whaaaaat? — Tom Cloyd <tomcloyd@...>

p [0..5].include? 0

26 messages 2009/05/12

[#336458] what could be improved in Ruby for Science? — Diego Virasoro <Diego.Virasoro@...>

Hello,

20 messages 2009/05/13

[#336505] Syntactic sugar idea — Daniel DeLorme <dan-ml@...42.com>

It seems that often an object will be passed into a block only to invoke

26 messages 2009/05/14
[#336508] Re: [bikeshed] Syntactic sugar idea — Jan <jan.h.xie@...> 2009/05/14

* Daniel DeLorme <dan-ml@dan42.com> [2009-05-14 11:42:31 +0900]:

[#336766] Berkeley DB or Store equivalent? — Mk 27 <halfcountplus@...>

I have never used mySQL because perl's Storable or BerkeleyDB modules

16 messages 2009/05/17

[#336783] permute each element of a ragged array? — Phlip <phlip2005@...>

Rubies:

19 messages 2009/05/17

[#336821] Sorting numbers as strings — Jack Bauer <realmadrid2727@...>

I'm trying to sort some strings containing numbers. The strings

14 messages 2009/05/18

[#336850] Introducing RubyScience on GitHub! — Joshua Ballanco <jballanc@...>

In the tradition of actions vs. words, I present to you:

14 messages 2009/05/18

[#336930] Create an exe with Ruby 1.9.1 — Marc-antoine Kruzik <kadelfek@...>

Hello !

23 messages 2009/05/19

[#336939] Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...>

Greetings, folks. First time poster, so if I breach

235 messages 2009/05/19
[#337016] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Roger Pack <rogerpack2005@...> 2009/05/20

> ...maybe something like this:

[#337699] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...> 2009/05/28

On May 27, 10:21=A0pm, James Britt <james.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

[#337734] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — James Britt <james.britt@...> 2009/05/28

J Haas wrote:

[#337740] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Juan Zanos <juan_zanos@...> 2009/05/28

On May 28, 2009, at 2:33 PM, James Britt wrote:

[#337745] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...> 2009/05/28

On May 28, 11:15=A0am, Eleanor McHugh <elea...@games-with-brains.com>

[#337954] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Steven Arnold <stevena@...> 2009/05/30

After listening to this debate for some time, the position of allowing

[#338133] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Andy F <andchafow-ruby@...> 2009/06/02

[#338172] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@...> 2009/06/02

On 2 Jun 2009, at 06:20, Andy F wrote:

[#337023] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...> 2009/05/20

On May 20, 8:51=A0am, Rick DeNatale <rick.denat...@gmail.com> wrote:

[#337025] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/05/20

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:35 PM, J Haas <Myrdred@gmail.com> wrote:

[#337045] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...> 2009/05/20

On May 20, 12:25=A0pm, Tony Arcieri <t...@medioh.com> wrote:

[#337581] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — J Haas <Myrdred@...> 2009/05/27

On May 22, 9:01=A0am, Roger Pack <rogerpack2...@gmail.com> wrote:

[#337673] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Juan Zanos <juan_zanos@...> 2009/05/28

[#337686] Re: Pythonic indentation (or: beating a dead horse) — Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@...> 2009/05/28

On 28 May 2009, at 15:06, Juan Zanos wrote:

[#337002] Ruby 1.8 vs. Ruby 1.9 — Calvin <cstephens4@...>

Hi,

17 messages 2009/05/20

[#337094] snailgun-1.0.2 — Brian Candler <b.candler@...>

New experimental project:

18 messages 2009/05/21

[#337115] w00t! Party for Gregory! — pat eyler <pat.eyler@...>

> On May 20, 2009, Gregory Brown wrote:

12 messages 2009/05/21

[#337221] Cryptogram II (#206) — Daniel Moore <yahivin@...>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

17 messages 2009/05/22

[#337323] String concatenation in Ruby — Jagadeesh <mnjagadeesh@...>

Hi,

18 messages 2009/05/25

[#337340] Do you nest classes inside classes? — Mike Stephens <rubfor@...>

Object Orientation is conceptually about a sea of objects interacting

11 messages 2009/05/25

[#337366] Runnin code at a certain time? — Tom Ricks <carrottop123@...>

Hello all,

20 messages 2009/05/25
[#337392] Re: Runnin code at a certain time? — Caleb Clausen <vikkous@...> 2009/05/25

On 5/25/09, Tom Ricks <carrottop123@gmail.com> wrote:

[#337413] Other languages to try? — Adam Gardner <adam.oddfellow@...>

So, I've been programming in Ruby for a good while now. Not an expert,

20 messages 2009/05/26

[#337421] Newbie on Threads — Nabs Kahn <nabusman@...>

I'm creating a screen scraping software and I want to have X (let's say

13 messages 2009/05/26
[#337424] Re: Newbie on Threads — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/05/26

2009/5/26 Nabs Kahn <nabusman@gmail.com>:

[#337507] Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Xeno Campanoli <xeno.campanoli@...>

I have the following working with cleartext LDAP:

20 messages 2009/05/26
[#337539] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/05/27

Xeno Campanoli wrote:

[#338073] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Xeno Campanoli <xeno.campanoli@...> 2009/06/01

Brian Candler wrote:

[#338082] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/06/01

Xeno Campanoli wrote:

[#338084] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Xeno Campanoli <xeno.campanoli@...> 2009/06/01

Brian Candler wrote:

[#338094] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/06/01

Xeno Campanoli wrote:

[#338095] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Xeno Campanoli <xeno.campanoli@...> 2009/06/01

Brian Candler wrote:

[#338096] Re: Something Not going with my LDAP using SSL — Xeno Campanoli <xeno.campanoli@...> 2009/06/01

Xeno Campanoli wrote:

[#337574] Installing Ruby 1.9.1 Binary on Windows Vista — Joel Dezenzio <jdezenzio@...>

I've searched and only found one topic which did not have an answer or

27 messages 2009/05/27

[#337671] death toll — deka <rocha.deka@...>

Hi, I am a Brazilian girl and I have a doubt abour numbers in English.

13 messages 2009/05/28

[#337823] Endless Ruby 0.0.2 — Caleb Clausen <vikkous@...>

endless.rb is a pre-processor for ruby which allows you to use python-ish

22 messages 2009/05/29

[#337841] Regular expression — Harry Kakueki <list.push@...>

I want to write a regular expression to do the following.

13 messages 2009/05/29

[#337869] Quine (#207) — Daniel Moore <yahivin@...>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

46 messages 2009/05/29
[#338000] Re: [QUIZ] Quine (#207) — pjb@... (Pascal J. Bourguignon) 2009/05/31

Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> writes:

[#338018] Re: [QUIZ] Quine (#207) — Aureliano Calvo <aurelianocalvo@...> 2009/06/01

I did something like that, but with parenthesis.

[#337899] Requesting Japanese Translation — James Gray <james@...>

I'm adding a little Japanese to a Ruby presentation I am giving. I

13 messages 2009/05/30

[#337961] nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Aaron Patterson <aaron@...>

nokogiri version 1.3.0 has been released!

32 messages 2009/05/30
[#337962] Re: nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Roger Pack <rogerpack2005@...> 2009/05/30

Aaron Patterson wrote:

[#337966] Re: nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Aaron Patterson <aaron@...> 2009/05/30

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 06:43:05AM +0900, Roger Pack wrote:

[#337968] Re: nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Iii Iii <bqotatjyujepur@...> 2009/05/30

> gem install nokogiri

[#337985] Re: nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Aaron Patterson <aaron@...> 2009/05/31

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 08:37:54AM +0900, Iii Iii wrote:

[#338049] Re: nokogiri 1.3.0 Released — Roger Pack <rogerpack2005@...> 2009/06/01

Re: Superclass of eigenclass

From: Danny O cuiv <danny.ocuiv@...>
Date: 2009-05-07 20:39:00 UTC
List: ruby-talk #336078
Rick, Robert,

Thanks for your helpful replies. I have just introduced myself to Ruby 
in the last couple of weeks by reading The Ruby Programming Language, so 
I'm still trying to pin some concepts. One thing I have found 
interesting in looking things up online is that it's not uncommon to 
refer to C-level constructs in MRI when discussing language semantics. 
(I personally would prefer to restrict myself to what's observable from 
sample Ruby code.)

Firstly, Robert, you have used "is_a?" in your example. This tests for 
(direct or indirect) conformance. I quibbled with the notion that the 
ordinary object was an instance of the eigenclass. The normal usage of 
the term "instance" to mean "direct instance" is reflected in the 
semantics of Ruby's "instance_of?" method. Using this method, we could 
extend your sample code as follows:

irb> a.instance_of? s
=> false
irb> a.instance_of? Object
=> true

This is what I meant, and to me, this is significant. One of my 
reference points in reading about Ruby was Smalltalk, which has the 
notion of a metaclass. In Smalltalk the concept is clear. (Indeed, the 
only reasonable meaning for the term metaclass is "a class whose 
instances are classes".) In Ruby, some people contend that eigenclass 
and metaclass are synonyms, which seems to me to confuse two distinct 
notions. In the interests of conceptual clarity, here's my take on the 
two notions. (Feel free to poke holes in this if it's totally 
upside-down or otherwise mistaken.)

(a) Eigenclass
Ruby allows for per-instance methods (deliberately avoiding the more 
common term as it's overloaded with a well-known pattern). The 
conceptual container for these per-instance methods is the object's 
eigenclass. The precise implementation of this notion in the reference 
notion should be immaterial. What is important is that a decision was 
made to reify the notion by providing language syntax to open it up, as 
follows:
class << myObject
This allows for dealing with several per-instance methods together. More 
to the point, if this syntax was not part of the language, eigenclasses 
would be purely an implementation notion and have no correspondence in 
Ruby code.

(b) Metaclass
To me, there is only one metaclass in Ruby, namely class Class. (By any 
reasonable definition of the term metaclass.) It seems to me mistaken to 
equate the terms metaclass and eigenclass. For one thing, every object 
in Ruby has an eigenclass (not just class objects). Secondly, even if we 
restrict our consideration purely to eigenclasses of class objects, 
these don't really qualify as metaclasses either. In Smalltalk, every 
class object is a (direct) instance of a metaclass. In Ruby, class 
objects are not (direct) instances of any eigenclass; they are all 
(direct) instances of class Class.

From this, it would seem to me that the term metaclass should not be 
used in Ruby. (Flanagan and Matz possibly agree as they seem to largely 
avoid the term in their book).

I would, however, agree with Rick about the muddiness surrounding 
superclasses. For example, the example on page 294-295-296 of the book 
uses the eigenclass to wrap tracing code around methods. In doing so, 
they use a call to super to access the original implementation. Now 
super, by the definition on page 238, "invokes a method with the same 
name as the current one, in the superclass of the current class". So, 
for this to work, the superclass of the eigenclass needs to be the 
original class. In other words, let's say we have a class called X, an 
instance of that class called x and let's say the eigenclass of x is e. 
The method on page 294 will work if the superclass of e is X. (Because 
that's where the original implementation is defined.) However, this is 
not the case. The superclass of the eigenclass is not the original 
class. It is the eigenclass of the original class. Finally, note that in 
saying "the superclass of the eigenclass is not the original class", it 
would appear that it was at one stage. According to Paolo Nusco 
Perrotta, at least some implementations of 1.8.2 and 1.9 had this 
behaviour:

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/248178

(link repeated from my original post).

Regards,

Danny.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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