From: Chad Perrin <perrin@...>
Date: 2009-04-17T08:23:46+09:00
Subject: Re: Goodbye Ruby - Hello Earth

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On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 05:58:21AM +0900, Tom Cloyd wrote:
>
> Free market idealism...ah, yes. In the USA, and, as a consequence, in=20
> world in general, we are presently enjoying the rewards of market left=20
> entirely TOO free. Wild pigs with the social morality of your average=20
> two year old took over, uprooted a lot of the garden and many of the=20
> fruit trees, and as a result many of us are more than a bit worried=20
> about how we're going to feed ourselves in the coming months.

I believe the technical term for the notion that "the free market" is to
blame for the current economic train wreck is "poppycock".  Only
left-wingnuts, corrupt corporate lobbyists, and politicians that have
been bought and paid for by corrupt corporate lobbyists can claim this is
a "free" market with a straight face.

Well, them . . . and people who believe the crap they sling because they
don't know anything about economics.

The people to blame are the partisan corporate representatives who
lobbied governmental representatives for special favors, and the
governmental representatives who provided those favors.  None of these
people are interested in a "free" market: they want one in which small
businesses are kept from growing enough to become competitive; in which
laws are passed granting them monopolistic control of their industries;
and in which government regulation essentially forces people go pay for
their services (such as insurance) or products (such as compact corn
based sweeteners).

You've effectively described the people who are, to a significant degree,
to blame for this mess.  You just mislabel them when you grant them the
term "free".  They want *control*, not freedom.


>=20
> I'm sad, Eleanor, since this is the first time anything you've posted=20
> has evidenced anything but keen intelligence. Ever study=20
> economics...with an emphasis on data, rather than mere theory? I suggest=
=20
> the investment of some time in that endeavor. Free market idealism is a=
=20
> lovely thing, but the real world is considerably more complex than such=
=20
> a simplistic representation as that. I'm puzzled that you missed this.

Please make arguments based on reason, logic, and evidence, rather than
accusations of ignorance, especially since implying that anyone who
believes a free market is better than one controlled by special interests
must be stupid and know nothing about economics is a great way to look
like you have no idea what you're talking about.  I suppose Nobel prize
winning economists of the Austrian school must be idiots in your view,
with low IQs and no knowledge of economics at all.


>=20
> I would have thought that your superb knowledge of both software design=
=20
> concepts and the messiness of the working out of those concepts in the=20
> real world might have given you a large hint about all this.

Maybe it does.  Maybe you're the one that hasn't thought things through
clearly -- especially since you haven't said anything that convinces me
you have any "evidence" of anything other than your own biases.


>=20
> "In a free market economy, technology will serve whatever is needed,=20
> when it's needed."
>=20
> Not if the technology needed requires massive investment with hope of=20
> rapid profit. For that sort of thing, history tends to show government=20
> gets the job far quicker and better. The free market didn't defeat the=20
> Nazis, or invent nuclear technology, and a great deal of the launch of=20
> modern cybernetics was also government sponsored.

I think it's time to invoke Godwin's law, and its first corollary: you
mentioned Nazis, so the argument is over and you lose.

Let's move on.

--=20
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
Quoth Anonymous: "Why do we never have time to do it right, but always
have time to do it over?"

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