From: Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...>
Date: 2009-02-27T07:14:09+09:00
Subject: Re: Nexus Programming Language

On 26.02.2009 11:17, Eleanor McHugh wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2009, at 08:21, Robert Klemme wrote:
>> 2009/2/26 Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@games-with-brains.com>:
>>> A lot of these arguments though have less to do with beauty per se  
>>> than they
>>> do with an evangelical zeal to save the poor benighted heathens  
>>> from their
>>> dark and superstitious coding ways. Personally I like my  
>>> superstitious ways
>>> and I'm happy to leave benighted heathens to their own devices :)
>> I see we seem to have a quite similar approach to those language
>> "discussions".  That's why my engagement in them is usually brief.
>> There is no point in trying to "convert" someone of a different
>> "belief".
> 
> I just like a good argument ;)

Hm, ok then we do have a bit different approach.

> Plus I've always believed that the best  
> way to find out stuff is to make someone who already knows it so  
> defensively apoplectic that they give you their very best material in  
> defence.

I see.  But you do have to admit that it can be painful at times (not
necessarily for you but the peer). :-)

> Lather, rinse, repeat :)

LOL

>> <wandering even="more off topic">I find the meta discussion about what
>> makes people have such strong feelings about particular positions and
>> why they want to convert others much more interesting.  I guess it has
>> something to do with basic instincts of humans who need to know where
>> they "belong to", i.e. what is their peer group and what are their
>> convictions.  But this discussion is rarely seen in our forums; maybe
>> it has something to do with IT guys (they mostly are - unfortunately)
>> seeing themselves as rational people who believe there are rational
>> reasons for most or all of their decision. Which reminds me of
>> zealotry in political leftist circles who also believe(d) that they
>> know how history works and what it needs to make everyone happy. I
>> find it surprising that after Third Reich and Gulag there are still
>> people who believe that they are able to force happiness on
>> everyone...</wandering>
> 
> Rationality has its uses, but carried to extremes it leaves the mind  
> trapped in a particular logical fallacies with no means of breaking  
> free. The universe after all is nothing more than a multi-dimensional  
> bumpy phase space full of highly misleading localised minima and  
> anyone who sits atop one is bound to be even more misguided than those  
> of us who get to the top of one slope and then decide to go for a  
> wander into the next valley. Who knows what exciting rabbit-holes we  
> may find there >8p

That's another interesting way to look at it.  May way to look at
decision making is this: rational decision making can only do "I choose 
X because of Y".  Then you have to say "I choose Y because of Z". 
Basically the chain would not end unless at some point Y is something 
which you simply do not question.  It's either a requirement coming from 
the outside or it is a value that is part of your system of convictions. 
  In that sense rational decision making is a myth because all decisions 
are rooted in the irrational.  Hopefully I wasn't too cryptic...

Kind regards

	robert