From: Michael Shigorin Date: 2008-10-08T18:23:27+09:00 Subject: Re: Why not adopt "Python Style" indentation for Ruby? ...me too... On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 02:35:10AM +0900, Frasier Mruby wrote: > I am kind of new to ruby and like it after looking python first. It might take some time for that particular taste to fade away... keep on :) > It's designed for be friends of programmers. But I feel the > "END" may have a negative role to ruby's purpose or attraction. It's very subjective, you might want to have a look at a dozen more languages (e.g. Modula-2 also uses END with no problem). > On 18/05/07, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > > * tab/space mixture > > * templates, e.g. eRuby > > * expression with code chunk, e.g lambdas and blocks > * clipboards, email, pastebins, and other places where the > code is not preserved literally ...and teamwork is more nasty since there's one more choke point. On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 11:47:35PM +0900, Robert Klemme wrote: > How about first learning and using the language instead of > suggesting changes right away? It helps in wider sense: while getting acquainted with a new OS, or with a university lab people who were there before you. Lurking and learning what is valued in this community and what is frowned upon helps getting into being valued and not frowned. Or, well, quitting without much ado -- that's better at times. > > If you felt insulted when some people ask if ruby could make > > improvement in future on its syntax It probably could but what you suggest is taking one of the worst design flaws in Python and planting it into Ruby. It is not an improvement by any measure. > > I feel sorry for that and think people could be better off to > > have an opener mind. > What about you? How open is your mind? ...e.g. regarding adopting new syntax and comparing it over a few weeks :-) > > I will take other's advice and use more and get myself > > familiar with it. Good luck, and don't get frustrated :-) You'll understand people who objected after more code behind.... both written and read. On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 01:23:10AM +0900, Frasier Mruby wrote: > "Open", as my understanding, is allowing others to say > something and not forbid them. JFYI: some tend to mix up "openness", "freedom" and "impunity". These are all different things, e.g. I'm not particularly "open" to badmouthing or brutal wording. > I won't feel bad, impatient,or angry if other people brings up > suggestions which I don't agree Wonder if you've already tried that couple hundred times on the same old matter. :) [for sufficient N of matters if you had] > and won't use sarcastic tones to reply newbie's messages. There's also a problem of time available. As one proverb would put it, "one can ask so many questions that thousand wizards won't keep up answering". So being patient to suggestions one wouldn't agree to is respecting the other side, but being patient to first learn about something and then ask why things are this way not the other (and only then suggesting to fix or improve something) is even more so. On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 10:25:42AM +0900, Martin DeMello wrote: > > I never liked the indentation of Python probably as a result > Actually, the more I write in scheme, the more I like its > structure. It all just works. It's not about structure in the first place, functional languages differ in approach; syntax is an effect, not the cause. See also http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ BTW Ruby is a nice language in terms of softly understanding OOP or FP to those who would do C or shell before. IMO much better than bare C++ or Java (got headaches), or probably LISP (was too young when put my nose in it for the first time)... On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 07:01:31PM +0900, David A. Black wrote: > Have you written to any C mailing lists, suggesting that C adopt > features from Ruby? Fortuned, sir! :) > "end" is not a test of whether or not Ruby is an attractive > language, and curly braces are not Ruby's ticket to popularity. > > In general, the best thing by far is to spend some time with > the language, and let it speak to you. -- ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/