From: "Clinton D. Judy" <cdj@...>
Date: 2008-09-12T20:52:38+09:00
Subject: Re: A menubar for Shoes?

I was going to disagree at first, but I realize how right you are. We all know that if a computer language allows you to write bad code, more people will write bad code and get away with it. Conversely, if people demand that every visual toolkit contains the same widgets, they will continue to even if some of the widgets are horrible UI design.

You don't have to think outside the box, just consider UI elements that make sense. Menu bars have never made sense. In fact, Microsoft Office helped make them popular; with the new "ribbon", they've killed off their original design and forced users to consider using something different.

Actually, a ribbon isn't too bad of an idea. Can shoes do selections of buttons like that?

- Clinton

-----Original Message-----
From: hramrach@gmail.com [mailto:hramrach@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Michal Suchanek
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:26 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A menubar for Shoes?

On 12/09/2008, Andy Joel <ak_joel@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Phlip wrote:
>  > Andy Joel wrote:
>  >
>  >> I have just recently tarted to look at Shoes, after a quick dabble with
>  >> Tk and Fox, and I really like its elegant style. However, there seems to
>  >> be no menu widgets, either built-in or indeed anywhere on the web that I
>  >> can find. This is a curious ommission.
>  >>
>
> > Shoes is a challenge to you: Don't think inside the box. Don't ask how
>  > to put a
>  > menu between your users and your engine. Think instead about what kind
>  > of new,
>  > beautiful GUI would display and animate your features the best.
>
>
> I prefer to be able to choose when I want to think outside the box.

Well, you chose that when you chose Shoes.

>
>  Menus are a ubiquious part of GUIs; users know how to use them and what
>  to expect. If they want to save, they already know how to do that in
>  countless GUI applications across Windows and Mac (and I guess Linux
>  too). But not for a Ruby Shoes application. There is a good reason why
>  enus have been a part of GUIs for well over twenty years - they work
>  very well. I think this is a serious ommission from the toolkit, and it
>  surprises me that no one else on the web sees it that way.
>

And they are consistent hindrance in the user interaction for over
twenty years. They are one of the poorest UI parts in use today.

There are other ways how to present a "Save" feature to the user.
There are bazillions of applications out there that have a "Save"
button on every graphics enabled platform I have seen.

And there are many applications that do not require you to save
anything manually. They update your choices on the fly as you make
them. And if the application is intended for editing complex data it
should have undo history anyway, and you can automatically save that.

If you really feel like you absolutely need a menu there is about a
dozen toolkits you can choose from, just choose the tool that fits
your needs.

Thanks

Michal