[#29932] Happy 2002! — "Rich Kilmer" <rich@...>

Happy New Year from Washington DC!

24 messages 2002/01/01
[#29938] RE: Happy 2002! — "James Britt (rubydev)" <james@...> 2002/01/01

>

[#29954] Re: Happy 2002! — Dinakar <Desai.Dinakar@...> 2002/01/01

"James Britt (rubydev)" wrote:

[#29991] Execing command with backquotes — mail02@... (Frank Benoit)

Hi

13 messages 2002/01/01

[#30101] Ruby Weekly News rdf feed now available — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

12 messages 2002/01/03

[#30191] chomp for arrays? — dempsejn@...

Hi All,

25 messages 2002/01/04
[#30238] Re: chomp for arrays? — adamspitz@... (Adam Spitz) 2002/01/04

How about something like this?

[#30248] Re: chomp for arrays? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/01/05

On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:53:14AM +0900, Adam Spitz wrote:

[#30357] snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/06

Hello --

[#30369] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — "Mark Hahn" <mchahn@...> 2002/01/06

A daydream of mine is a "super-require" that if the file was not found, the

[#30401] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — Dan Sugalski <dan@...> 2002/01/07

At 06:31 AM 1/7/2002 +0900, Mark Hahn wrote:

[#30195] should I use ruby instead of perl — vekkuli ketkutin <qvyht@...>

simple question...

25 messages 2002/01/04

[#30265] Structs and Marshalling — Albert Wagner <alwagner@...>

I keep getting myself tripped up when I Marshal Struct objects. I typically

18 messages 2002/01/05
[#30281] Re: Structs and Marshalling — ts <decoux@...> 2002/01/05

>>>>> "A" == Albert Wagner <alwagner@tcac.net> writes:

[#30334] Re: Structs and Marshalling — Albert Wagner <alwagner@...> 2002/01/06

On Saturday 05 January 2002 06:25 am, you wrote:

[#30473] Re: [ruby-talk:30334] Re: Structs and Marshalling — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/07

Hi,

[#30528] Possible bug with struct.c (Re: Re: Structs and Marshalling) — ts <decoux@...> 2002/01/07

>>>>> "Y" == Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@ruby-lang.org> writes:

[#30546] Re: Possible bug with struct.c (Re: Re: Structs and Marshalling) — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/07

At Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:36:12 +0900,

[#30274] The Ruby Way — "Conrad Schneiker" <schneiker@...>

Hi,

31 messages 2002/01/05
[#30275] RE: The Ruby Way — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/05

> From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:schneiker@jump.net]

[#30276] Re: The Ruby Way — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/05

That was supposed to say "how do I implement a hash with duplicate keys?"

[#30320] Sorting a Hash by value of integer stored in the Hash — Michael Joner <finalfrontier@...>

I have a program which creates a Hash array. The ultimate result is a

14 messages 2002/01/06

[#30327] one liner / overriden class repository — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

Why aim if not high? :-)

15 messages 2002/01/06

[#30366] class name reported differently in different contexts — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...>

30 messages 2002/01/06
[#30380] Re: class name reported differently in different contexts — "Chr. Rippel" <chr_news@...> 2002/01/06

[#30496] Re: class name reported differently in different contexts — <ale@...> 2002/01/07

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Chr. Rippel wrote:

[#30372] [ANN] Invitation to join LotY (Language of the Year) project, 2002: learning Haskell — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Dear fellow programmers,

10 messages 2002/01/06

[#30431] Re: snippet exchange (was: Re: Re: chomp for arrays?) — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

The way i was thinking of this working would be this: someone has heard of a

14 messages 2002/01/07

[#30461] Re: the [ruby-talk] is gone? — "Jack Dempsey" <dabigdemp@...>

Hi Matz,

13 messages 2002/01/07

[#30494] Segfault with druby and fork — Michael Witrant <mike@...>

Hello,

24 messages 2002/01/07
[#30510] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/07

Hi,

[#30543] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — Michael Witrant <mike@...> 2002/01/07

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:37:14 +0900

[#30640] Re: Segfault with druby and fork — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/08

Hi,

[#30644] An Update on the FreeRIDE Project — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2002/01/08

I wanted to give everyone an update on where we are with the FreeRIDE

[#30655] Re: An Update on the FreeRIDE Project — bobx@... (Bob) 2002/01/08

Documentation should also be a big(?) concern. I am new to Ruby as

[#30539] RDoc Alpha-6 available — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

37 messages 2002/01/07

[#30737] rpkg 0.1 (long) — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>

<yaaawn>

16 messages 2002/01/10

[#30866] Dir.entries have no home — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

Chet and I were writing a little code manager yesterday and we wrote

38 messages 2002/01/11

[#30920] MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2002/01/11
[#30953] Re: MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...> 2002/01/12

[#30969] Re: MetaRuby : RubySchema.rb howto? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...> 2002/01/12

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

[#30949] Another suggestion for FreeRIDE — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

Based on some discussions over at comp.lang.python...

13 messages 2002/01/12

[#31017] Why I think Ruby will eventually be more popular than Python — gandy@... (Thomas Gandy)

Ruby and Python both play in the same niche: they're both Object

9 messages 2002/01/12

[#31080] Best way for platf. independent compression? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...>

Currently, rpkg builds packets by tar'ring and gzip'ping the source

25 messages 2002/01/13
[#31112] Re: Best way for platf. independent compression? — Chris Gehlker <gehlker@...> 2002/01/14

On 1/13/02 1:42 PM, "Massimiliano Mirra" <list@chromatic-harp.com> wrote:

[#31153] Re: Best way for platf. independent compression? — Massimiliano Mirra <list@...> 2002/01/14

On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:08:58PM +0900, Chris Gehlker wrote:

[#31085] Small Methods - a ramble — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

I noticed in some code that Chet and I were writing that, as Smalltalkers, we tend to write really

45 messages 2002/01/13
[#31170] Re: Small Methods - a ramble — Brian Marick <marick@...> 2002/01/14

Ron Jeffries wrote:

[#31099] a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...>

49 messages 2002/01/14
[#31237] Re: a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — matz@... (Yukihiro Matsumoto) 2002/01/15

Hi,

[#31276] Re: a wishlist for ruby 2.0 — Mathieu Bouchard <matju@...> 2002/01/15

[#31251] Swig Ruby documentation mods. — Hugh Sasse Staff Elec Eng <hgs@...>

I have been trying to use Swig Ruby recently, and in attempting to

10 messages 2002/01/15

[#31262] grabbing stuff from web pages — Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

Part of my web site has recommended books. I use the cover jpegs from

11 messages 2002/01/15

[#31275] how to get all the reserved words? — Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@...>

Hi;

16 messages 2002/01/15

[#31289] memory usage question — "Mark Hahn" <mchahn@...>

I need to write a script that will use a hash with 4 million strings of 16

30 messages 2002/01/15

[#31311] Vote for Windows Installer packages — Andrew Hunt <andy@...>

14 messages 2002/01/15

[#31404] Re: A question on Ruby Threads — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

In article <a242re$gop@ftp.ee.vill.edu>, "Chris Gehlker"

15 messages 2002/01/16

[#31424] A few words on threads — "Avdi B. Grimm" <avdi@...>

Warning: many strong personal opinions and broad

14 messages 2002/01/16

[#31442] #59 Add fsync method to IO class — hensleyl@... (Leslie Hensley)

Adding fsync and fdatasync methods to the IO class will allow Ruby to

17 messages 2002/01/16

[#31512] Hello! Array sub classing? — Markt <markt@...>

Hello Ruby lovers!

23 messages 2002/01/17

[#31533] Possible bug in Mac version? — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

16 messages 2002/01/17

[#31564] The first alternative RDoc template — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

22 messages 2002/01/17

[#31658] dynamic method creation — "Albert L. Wagner" <alwagner@...>

I have a need to dynamically create methods with method names

16 messages 2002/01/18

[#31711] Re: zip on Linux — "Mirabai Neumann" <webmaster@...>

19 messages 2002/01/19

[#31727] Keeping track of multiple Ruby discussion sites. — "James Britt (rubydev)" <james@...>

Recently, Massimiliano Mirra wrote:

13 messages 2002/01/19

[#31735] installing mod_ruby --> seg fault in ruby-rdtool — craig@...

At least that's where core dumped. FreeBSD/Alpha (4.4-RELEASE). New to

16 messages 2002/01/19

[#31741] $_ as default parameter for a function — thomass@... (Thomas)

I'd like the fragment below to produce "blah blah", but it doesn't

15 messages 2002/01/19

[#31882] RANT: Ruby GUI API — Sean Russell <ser@...>

I started this rant in another thread, where it was way OT, so I'm moving

60 messages 2002/01/21

[#31937] Re: RANT: Ruby GUI API — Ben Crowell <crowell02@...>

M. Mirra wrote:

28 messages 2002/01/22
[#31948] Re: RANT: Ruby GUI API — John Carter <john.carter@...> 2002/01/22

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Crowell wrote:

[#32056] Ruby Publishing Framework v0.5.0 — Bryan Murphy <bryan@...>

Ruby Publishing Framework

15 messages 2002/01/22

[#32106] about time for seperate lists? — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

Hi all,

12 messages 2002/01/23

[#32121] : ruby-talk seperation — "Tobias DiPasquale" <anany@...>

Hi all,

19 messages 2002/01/23

[#32177] — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...>

I have a problem loading files from my script (I mean Kernel::load):

20 messages 2002/01/23
[#32187] — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/23

Hi,

[#32722] Re: — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/01/29

Hello nobu,

[#32728] Re: — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/29

Hi,

[#32793] Re[2]: — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/01/30

Tuesday, January 29, 2002, 5:05:05 PM, you wrote:

[#32799] $: in mod_ruby — nobu.nokada@... 2002/01/30

Hi,

[#32957] Re: $: in mod_ruby — Eugene Scripnik <Eugene.Scripnik@...> 2002/02/01

Wednesday, January 30, 2002, 4:55:23 PM, you wrote:

[#32233] Subclassing vs Subtyping (partly OOP vs FP) — Robert Feldt <feldt@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2002/01/24
[#33032] Re: Subclassing vs Subtyping (partly OOP vs FP) — Dave Thomas <Dave@...> 2002/02/03

Lewis Perin <perin@panix.com> writes:

[#32247] Array.last Weirdness — Jesse Jones <jesjones@...>

I'd expect the following code:

19 messages 2002/01/24

[#32312] Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — William Djaja Tjokroaminata <billtj@...>

Hi,

42 messages 2002/01/24
[#32315] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/24

Hello --

[#32400] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — billtj@... (Bill Tj) 2002/01/25

Hi,

[#32404] Re: Serious Array Bug in Ruby 1.6.6? — David Alan Black <dblack@...> 2002/01/25

Hello --

[#32319] looking for an example problem to demonstrate TaskMaster — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm looking for suggestions here...

19 messages 2002/01/24

[#32355] RDoc learns to draw pictures... — Dave Thomas <Dave@...>

15 messages 2002/01/25
[#32377] Re: [ANN] RDoc learns to draw pictures... — "Pit Capitain" <pit@...> 2002/01/25

On 25 Jan 2002, at 9:34, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#32388] Ruby Developers Guide — Robert Feldt <feldt@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2002/01/25

[#32401] Sourcecode dump? — Olivier CARRERE <carrere@...>

Hello,

12 messages 2002/01/25

[#32417] Subrange of String subclass => invalid object — "Bob Alexander" <bobalex@...>

Given these conditions:

52 messages 2002/01/25

[#32445] "friend" alternative in Ruby? — kturing@... (kate turing)

I have a class "Foo". It has a method "doSecretStuff" that I want to

13 messages 2002/01/26

[#32465] rubyzip 0.3.1 — thomass@... (Thomas)

rubyzip 0.3.1 is out.

18 messages 2002/01/26

[#32593] OT: tools for creating documentation — ptkwt@...1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)

I'm going to be creating a good bit of documentation for TaskMaster and I

12 messages 2002/01/27

[#32646] popen3 and buffering — Paul Brannan <paul@...>

I have a program test.rb:

26 messages 2002/01/28

[ruby-talk:29939] Re: Ruby/Python: Software Engineering

From: "James Britt (rubydev)" <james@...>
Date: 2002-01-01 09:08:09 UTC
List: ruby-talk #29939
> 
> [Quentin Crain]
> James/All:
> 
> 
> At 09:06 AM 1/1/2002 +0900, James Britt (rubydev) wrote:
> >The use of the word "classic" suggests that software development is a 
> >mature field, with
> >a long, venerable history of knowldege and techniques.  People have been 
> >writing
> >code for less than 100 years.  Calling anything to do with computers 
> >"classic"
> >seems odd.  (It makes me think of "classic rock"; might make sense in 200 
> >years.)
> 
> Umm ... my interpretation of the above is that you did understand my 
> meaning of "classic" (duly quoted), so its usage seems to be clear nonetheless.

I should have been more specific: software development is not old enough to have
"classic" anything.

> 
> >I'm not convinced that writing software is engineering.  I'd rather pick 
> >my tools
> >the way I would pick drawing pencils or a violin; I want things that give me
> >freedom, not force me to work in a certain style.
> 
> In short: It is not important to be able to draw, create music or code in 
> "unnatural" styles. The point is to use the tools which are "friendly" 
> without loss of power.
> 
> Or do I miss something?

If a tool *forces* me to follow a style then I have lost power.


> >I've yet to hear of a language that prevents you from misnaming variables or
> >methods.  (Hmm. Maybe we need a language that prevents variables names less
> >than five characters long; must have a least one vowel?  Might be a start ...)
> 
> Agreed--but why does this matter? Obviously anything/everything can be 
> misused; but that does not mean everything is then equal.

I don't think anyone has claimed everything is then equal.  The point is that
while some languages force you to adhere to *some* aspect of a coding style, 
there are still so many other ways permissible to break that style that, overall,
the adhering to a coding style still requires individual discipline.


> >I think you may be putting the cart before the horse.  What looks like bad
> >code according to one design method may be fine according to another. If a 
> >language
> >requires (or strongly encourages) following a particular philosophy then 
> >it also
> >restricts you from exploring others.
> 
> Agreed again. But just because a language says it does not restrict you 
> does not make it true. Or better put, every language has a philosophy and 
> restricts to it. Ruby is no different right? In fact, by being "pure"-OO it 
> forces *that* particular philosophy (would it not?).

No.  It may encourage it, but Ruby does not prevent you from writing
procedural code.  Not sure how it fairs if you want to mimic a functional
programming language.

I agree that each language has its own "world view."  The difference is 
to what degree a language allows you to disagree with that view, or to what
extent that view is permissive or restrictive.

There is also a separation between language philosphy (e.g.., OO, functional,
procedural) and design/development methods (XP, Agile, NewBuzzWord, ...)

So, if you decide that OO is the cat's meow, then you should probably use
an OO language.  But if you are looking at development from a somewhat higher
level, that becomes a different issue.  There's nothing about Ruby that
argues for XP, or any other approach at that level, and doing so would be 
inappropriate for a language.


> 
> >Evolving one's development philosophy shouldn't require you to change 
> >languages
> >(though that may happen anyway).  One day people will look back at XP and say,
> >"How quaint."  Not because XP is wrong or misguided, but because it will 
> >inevitably
> >lead to other, better things.  You shouldn't have to ditch code because the
> >language forces you to think in a way you no longer find appropriate.
> 
> I do not understand this. I hear you saying that I should not rewrite just 
> because I have changed my thinking. Fine--but *new* code should be written 
> in the way I find appropriate right?

Of course. But, if you've chosen a language that *compels* you to think a certain
way, and later decide to think differently, then the language becomes a hindrance.

For example, if next year you decide "Code the unit test first" is a bone-head 
idea, you shouldn't have to change langauges becasue you picked one that forces 
you code unit tests.


> 
> Otherwise, is not this saying: One should code in ways one does not think? 
> That can not be very efficient nor productive.

One should code in accordance to how one thinks.  The language should get out
of the way as much as possible.  You should be able to say, "Today I want to follow
software development philosphy X, and language Foo will help me." Next year you
should be able to say, "today I want to follow software development philosphy Y, 
and language Foo will help me." 


> 
> 
> >
> >Perhaps it should be the other way around: Find languages that provide
> >clean ways to do most things with a minimum of fuss, and see what development
> >methods can be derived from their use.
> 
> Unless I am misunderstanding this says: The tools should drive the methodology.
> 
> I believe the needs of the developers (along with being human) take 
> precedence. And I would be confused as to how things would go better when 
> forcing people to act in "unnatural" ways, ways forced on them by their 
> tool choices.

Tools don't force you to do anything; if you don't like a tool, don't use it.
And don't let a methodology lead you to do something unatural.

James

In This Thread