From: Marc Heiler Date: 2008-04-10T20:17:07+09:00 Subject: Re: RubyâEURO(tm)s not ready - an indepth essay > I have read most of the comments in this forum. Most of them are > helpful while some key points in the blog were not touched. > This is an example: > "In another incident in the same article, the original Rails author > admits" Chris, I understand you here. But what others should also understand - namely a very few Python hackers, or other people that take a habit to jump bandwagons - is that there is the language Ruby, and the framework Ruby on Rails. I have nothing against RoR, but I have something against people that put all things in the same bag. (I recommend people to read more objective blogs like the one that talks about python and ruby filling the same niche in a software ecosystem) I guess anyone could rant for hours how horrible "language x" with "framework y" is and I am sure if this is hyped again and again in a blogosphere, some "language x" people would feel unhappy. (Not to excuse the RoR folks, who hyped RoR a lot too.) I am rather tired to see blog posts where the two (Ruby, and Ruby on Rails) are intertwined and confused. Sure, one needs Ruby to use RoR, but some people write as if the two are the same. The "coolest" people are those that write "Ruby and Rails" - but they clearly mean "Ruby on Rails", not Ruby and RoR ... makes you wonder if they cant even get the name right.... I mean the homepage alone should give one a clear hint about the name -> www.rubyonrails.org but may they never visited. Anyway... Now to your other point [about speed]: > If the statement is true, then should I turn from rails to Pylons? You see, if people only use app solutions and ditch languages happily in favour for app x or app y (which is a perfectly fine attitude IMHO), then I would be in agreement that switching makes sense if you find specific drawbacks in an app. You can even read a comment about DHH praising php (for its ability for www usage), though this is of course not my opinion, because I think php needs to go away... ;) But lets be honest - often you just trade in one disadvantage with another if you switch frameworks. And sometimes you trade in more disadvantages. RoR is also not the only web framework for Ruby. (And Pylons not the only one for Python.) I dont think anyone can recommend _YOU_ here to switch to a totally different language if your use scenario already depicts a way to a framework _outside_ of ruby. Because after all you will be writing either python, or ruby code, right? So I dont think its fair to recommend a framework in ANOTHER language - I mean, I would recommend people to use ruby over python. Ok let's put it bluntly... Go use Ramaze. http://ramaze.net/ But even more importantly, decide if ruby as a language is for you, or whether you want to pick up python. Then these questions can more readily be addressed - besides I believe python and ruby are still filling a very similar use scenario/ecosystem. The common enemy should be PHP and its www dominance ;) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.