From: Luis Lavena Date: 2008-01-02T13:59:59+09:00 Subject: Re: Zed Shaw - Ruby has dodged a bullet On 2 ene, 01:48, Sam Smoot wrote: > On Jan 1, 7:46 pm, Luis Lavena wrote: > > > In my case I don't hate but really piss me off that every time I try > > to get feedback on proper support for Windows (which I professionally > > use), get silly answers like "hey, move to a real OS". > Keeping the OT ;-) > Off Topic: I really do think OCI's use of VC6 is a big factor in this. > Not only do I have to buy VMWare, a copy of Windows, and go through > *hours* of inconvenience, but I have to dig up some compiler that's no > longer offered or supported when MS offers free alternatives for > download (VCExpress)... It's really frustrating. The choice of VC6 wasn't mine, nor original from Curt Hibbs or Andy Hunt for what matters. I always bring this up, since there is some confusion on the fundaments of Ruby being compiled with VC6: - Curt was using VC2003 (7.1) back in 2006, the pain to maintain not just Ruby but all the extensions compiled for it was overkill - There has been always an "official", naked/barebone build of Ruby for Windows made by Nobu at garbagecollect. Curt and the others at One- Click Installer just fill the gap which was simpler at that time. - Discussion about VC2005, MinGW or whatever compile you name always raise in this list or ruby-core, but noone really take big steps on this, besides some contributions from Austin Ziegler to allow ruby be built with VC8, which is radically different beast compared to VC6. - VC8 bring just a big nightware to the whole thing, even is "free" (as microsoft states it), you require build everything with it, which translate to a hell of project maintainance. - Build with MinGW also requires proper testing, which I've tried to get some assistance on this list and also on ruby-core about serious issues (blockers) without success too (hey, maybe I need to learn english, since I think noone understand what I write). > Not directed at you of course Luis. Appreciate your hard work at bridging the gap. :-) I know you don't. I even had my differences with other developers on this list, ruby-core or #ruby-lang, and sent my apologizes when needed. You must thank Zed, Curt, Nobu and Austing, without them and their comments I wouldn't be so active, lack of feedback is negative, more when you're working in your free time. I must accept the fact I'm not a easy person to deal with, and that many "companies" will not like my attitude for a "team work". On a On-Topic thing, if you remove the cursing and bad words from Zed's lengthy post, you will find a deep, not-so-far-from-truth reality. Now replace 'Rails' with J2EE, dotNet or even SAP, and you will find that this new virus is infecting the community is nothing new, is a old decease that existed way before Ruby became "mainstream" due Rails. I can call it a 'suck-energy-from-community' decease. Anyway, I cannot comment on the personal relations or the personalities Zed mention in his post, since I haven't dealt with them and cannot discuss these personal issues in such open way like Zed did. But again, that is Zed's POV and his ideas, agree or not with them. For what matters, Zed was the only developer back in 2006 (or even 2007) I've met that from day zero shown openness and desire to get Mongrel working on Windows. Hey, he even setup a Windows box and installed FreeBASIC just to build mongrel_service there! Some folks may consider my comments useless since I can be Zed's friend. I hope he consider me that way, since I respect him as human being and his work. All this time we've chat, mailed or IM we talk and share ideas with respect. Hope other users don't follow the main line of this thread and start doing the first thing they critize from Zed. Everybody have a nice week! Regards, Luis Lavena