From: John Joyce Date: 2008-01-02T00:12:25+09:00 Subject: Re: Zed Shaw - Zed has dodged annoying people Oh give Zed a break. He's an excellent programmer. He's not gentle or ginger with words and never has been. Some of that his also his sense of humor and exaggeration. BUT, I can totally understand where he's coming from dealing with web developers and web development companies. I believe he's aiming to much of that anger at Rails because of the people he's dealt with. Among web developers, there are lots of them with big egos, self importance, going only for the gold with no pride in what they're building or real confidence in coding. Many web dev companies and their leaders just have absolutely zero sense of loyalty or ethics and will screw people at the drop of a hat AFTER making promises and schedules they could never keep. And the half-baked, hair-brain ideas for web sites? Oh yeah, there are lots of those Rails projects. There are lots with PHP too. Zed is not wrong, except to blame Ruby or Rails for the problem. What he says about Rails being a big "lie", well there may be some truth to that... But clearly Zed was able to build a heck of a good thing with Mongrel...so he does know a thing or two about that! I can understand the allure of the Python community for him. Python web frameworks do tend to be used by companies and groups that are very clear about why they're using a particular technology and pretty well-grounded in reality. We all know that Rails' hype sometimes can be annoying. Sounds like Zed just wants to do interesting programming and get rewarded for it, not just well paid, but treated like a human being without junior high school drama. Seems reasonable, but often difficult to achieve. Personally, I think Zed is a funny guy. I think I get his humor. But I also hope he continues to develop good stuff in Ruby and realizes that it is largely just the bad side of the culture of the web development world that got to him. Zed, get away from the web sites, do something without web stuff!