[ruby-talk:27452] Re: SF vs. Savannah modulo XP AI

Robert Feldt's following post was found archived in Ruby-Talk at
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/27444 
> Subject: [ruby-talk:27444] Re: SF vs. Savannah modulo XP AI
> From: Robert Feldt <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:54:03 +0900
> In-reply-to: 27443

> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Arthur T. Murray wrote:

> ATM:
> Mind.Ruby proposes to "save the world" through eXtreme Programming
> in the emergence of true artificial intelligence for bringing about
> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/vinge/vinge-sing.html (q.v.).
> 
Modest goals ;-) [...]
>> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/1000 --
>> FAQTS : Computers : Programming : Languages : Ruby.
>> 
RF:
> I think it would be good if you describe in more 
> detail how your project depends on or uses Ruby. 
ATM:
As was stated in the now _deleted_ Ruby Application Archive entry,
the project begins life as a "proposal coordinated by website."
RF:
> We have'nt seen any code even though your posts and home 
> pages gives the impression there is actually code there.
ATM:
No; it is a _request_ for code, and a free AI theory to code, at
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/theory5.html "Brain-Mind: Know Thyself!"

RF:
> I think the "witch-hunt" you're referring to stems from 
> a language/communication problem. Your goals and manifestos
> are grandiose and programmers tend to be sceptical until 
> they can see real and working code, algorithms and/or systems. 
> If you give some real meat people will be less sceptical.
ATM:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mind/ has Forth and JavaScript AI.  I
would love to split into two selves and have self #2 code Mind.Ruby,
but we each are allowed only one body in one life.  I need Ruby help.

RF:
> [...] it also feels like your trying to ride on the hype
> of XP and Ruby in promoting your project.
ATM:
Microsoft across the lake from me has tried to "embrace and extend"
eXtreme Programming by naming their new OS "Windows XP."  AI is XP cubed.
And I may be trying to co-opt Ruby so as to infiltrate AI ideas into
Japan, where they make the world's most advanced robots, but not for hype.

RF:
> The post to comp.objects etc (reaching a *LARGE* number of people)
> was also confusing; is he promoting Ruby? Is Mind.Ruby part of Ruby?
ATM:
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html is Object-Oriented JavaScript,
and Ruby is a pure OO scripting language, so this is an "OO AI" project.
RF:
> etc It might have created confusion about what Ruby is among people 
> who've never heard about it. To me that is unfortunate.

> If you try to describe to us in simple, everyday terms what it is
> you're up to, how it's different from AI research and knowledge and
> where Ruby fits in we'll (at least I) try to understand you better.
ATM:
Thank you for being someone with a non-witch-hunt open mind here.
When I found out about Ruby several years ago, I was impressed and
excited, even though I have remained too busy to learn my own Ruby.
I was one of the 200 Usenet voters for news:comp.lang.ruby --
although I noticed that the Mentifex-bashers voted _against_ it.
At a site where I obtained a bookload of JavaScript, I created
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/1000 -- "Ruby."
[...]
RF:
> What do you mean with "Open Source Ruby OO AI coordination page"?
> How does it relate to a "community" of Ruby projects at SF? 
> To me it gives the impression that your project includes any
> other Ruby OO AI projects there might be. I'm doing Soft Computing 
>(Evolutionary computation) with Ruby and it is sometimes considered
> AI or at least AI-related. Does this mean I should coordinate with you?
ATM:
It means that you should provide any available URL for linking from
http://mind.sourceforge.net/ruby.html -- the Mind-to-Ruby liaison page,
by which I mean the following.  In an utmostly passive, minimally
intrusive way, I intend to link to "any other Ruby OO AI projects"
for which I find unblocked, free-access URLS.  On SourceForge, I
will go into AI and non-AI Ruby project "Open Discussion Forums"
and mention the Ruby OO AI liaison page, so as to _generate_ a
"community" of Ruby projects at SF, because:  I have been working
on this PD AI project since I was nineteen years old in 1965, and I
need to make it _freely_ available to others before I run out of time.
RF:
> And the questions in this thread wasn't specifically
> about AI. Why did you post about a specific application 
> area (AI) when we're discussing a general Ruby foundry? 
> And please don't answer that AI encompasses all knowledge...
ATM:
You are right.  There were however enough a propos ingredients
for me to comment, especially in view of the two-way linkages
which I envision between all SF AI projects and the liaison page,
with one-way linkages from general SF Ruby forum pages to the AI.
Thank you and all the other Ruby-Talk participants for hearing me out.
Sincerely, Arthur T. Murray, http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/ 

> Regards,

> /Robert Feldt