From: mentifex@... (Arthur T. Murray) Date: 2001-12-05T00:23:12+09:00 Subject: [ruby-talk:27452] Re: SF vs. Savannah modulo XP AI Robert Feldt's following post was found archived in Ruby-Talk at http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/27444 > Subject: [ruby-talk:27444] Re: SF vs. Savannah modulo XP AI > From: Robert Feldt > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:54:03 +0900 > In-reply-to: 27443 > On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Arthur T. Murray wrote: > ATM: > Mind.Ruby proposes to "save the world" through eXtreme Programming > in the emergence of true artificial intelligence for bringing about > http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/vinge/vinge-sing.html (q.v.). > Modest goals ;-) [...] >> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/1000 -- >> FAQTS : Computers : Programming : Languages : Ruby. >> RF: > I think it would be good if you describe in more > detail how your project depends on or uses Ruby. ATM: As was stated in the now _deleted_ Ruby Application Archive entry, the project begins life as a "proposal coordinated by website." RF: > We have'nt seen any code even though your posts and home > pages gives the impression there is actually code there. ATM: No; it is a _request_ for code, and a free AI theory to code, at http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/theory5.html "Brain-Mind: Know Thyself!" RF: > I think the "witch-hunt" you're referring to stems from > a language/communication problem. Your goals and manifestos > are grandiose and programmers tend to be sceptical until > they can see real and working code, algorithms and/or systems. > If you give some real meat people will be less sceptical. ATM: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mind/ has Forth and JavaScript AI. I would love to split into two selves and have self #2 code Mind.Ruby, but we each are allowed only one body in one life. I need Ruby help. RF: > [...] it also feels like your trying to ride on the hype > of XP and Ruby in promoting your project. ATM: Microsoft across the lake from me has tried to "embrace and extend" eXtreme Programming by naming their new OS "Windows XP." AI is XP cubed. And I may be trying to co-opt Ruby so as to infiltrate AI ideas into Japan, where they make the world's most advanced robots, but not for hype. RF: > The post to comp.objects etc (reaching a *LARGE* number of people) > was also confusing; is he promoting Ruby? Is Mind.Ruby part of Ruby? ATM: http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html is Object-Oriented JavaScript, and Ruby is a pure OO scripting language, so this is an "OO AI" project. RF: > etc It might have created confusion about what Ruby is among people > who've never heard about it. To me that is unfortunate. > If you try to describe to us in simple, everyday terms what it is > you're up to, how it's different from AI research and knowledge and > where Ruby fits in we'll (at least I) try to understand you better. ATM: Thank you for being someone with a non-witch-hunt open mind here. When I found out about Ruby several years ago, I was impressed and excited, even though I have remained too busy to learn my own Ruby. I was one of the 200 Usenet voters for news:comp.lang.ruby -- although I noticed that the Mentifex-bashers voted _against_ it. At a site where I obtained a bookload of JavaScript, I created http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/1000 -- "Ruby." [...] RF: > What do you mean with "Open Source Ruby OO AI coordination page"? > How does it relate to a "community" of Ruby projects at SF? > To me it gives the impression that your project includes any > other Ruby OO AI projects there might be. I'm doing Soft Computing >(Evolutionary computation) with Ruby and it is sometimes considered > AI or at least AI-related. Does this mean I should coordinate with you? ATM: It means that you should provide any available URL for linking from http://mind.sourceforge.net/ruby.html -- the Mind-to-Ruby liaison page, by which I mean the following. In an utmostly passive, minimally intrusive way, I intend to link to "any other Ruby OO AI projects" for which I find unblocked, free-access URLS. On SourceForge, I will go into AI and non-AI Ruby project "Open Discussion Forums" and mention the Ruby OO AI liaison page, so as to _generate_ a "community" of Ruby projects at SF, because: I have been working on this PD AI project since I was nineteen years old in 1965, and I need to make it _freely_ available to others before I run out of time. RF: > And the questions in this thread wasn't specifically > about AI. Why did you post about a specific application > area (AI) when we're discussing a general Ruby foundry? > And please don't answer that AI encompasses all knowledge... ATM: You are right. There were however enough a propos ingredients for me to comment, especially in view of the two-way linkages which I envision between all SF AI projects and the liaison page, with one-way linkages from general SF Ruby forum pages to the AI. Thank you and all the other Ruby-Talk participants for hearing me out. Sincerely, Arthur T. Murray, http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/ > Regards, > /Robert Feldt