[ruby-talk:23259] Re: Bruce Eckel's opinion of Ruby

Emiliano wrote:

>> Then it will be her variables that will be overwritten, not mine.
> 
> Which is great if you work in isolation and interface cleanly. It's
> not so great if people work on one package where the separation is not
> so clear.

A very good point.

>> Really, using global variables is such a poor programming habit that I
>> believe that if you have someone on your team using them, you have more
>> problems than just global variables.
> 
> So why not make them impossible?

Why not hire decent programmers ;-)  No, really.  If someone doesn't know 
how to use the tool properly, don't hire them for the job.  If you're 
already employing them, they either need training, or a pink slip.

> OK, so that means coding style can differ from year to year. I don't
> see that as a plus. Where I work with C we work according to the safer

Hmmm.  Well, another point of disagreement.  I believe that some degree of 
variability is good.  In any case, Python isn't going to protect you from 
change in coding standards.

> years and people coming and leaving, it was well worth the grumbling
> people would do about the anal/ugly/unreadable/<fill-in-excuse> we
> took in the beginning.

Aaah.  This sounds like the infamous "Yeah it sucks, but we have to 
maintain backward compatibility" argument. :-)

>> So I'd argue that Python would not have changed this in the least.  In
> 
> So it wouldn't have hindered you either once you got past the initial
> shock.

Aside from the fact that nobody but Guido has any choice in the matter.

Do you use Linux?

> Python doesn't enforce a naming scheme, and I wouldn't stand for a
> compiler that would.

Here's the point of divergence.  I feel towards Python's formatting 
restrictions as you do about (hypothetical) naming restrictions.  Every 
argument you've made so far in support of Python's enforced style could be 
made by someone in support of compiler-enforced naming conventions.  On the 
other hand, you *could* make the argument that any language that you didn't 
write yourself imposes some stylistic restrictions.  Specifically, however, 
for whatever reason, you accept Python's style restrictions but wouldn't 
accept further restrictions, while I reject style restrictions imposed by 
the language author.  Interestingly, Ruby's naming restrictions (the whole 
case thing) caused me some heartburn when I first got started with it.  
Every language suffers from this to some extent; although I chafe at the 
restriction, it does coincide with my normal naming scheme, so I turned a 
blind eye.

> I'll agree to disagree. Not all matters ned be democratic.

Well, we certainly agree there.  I wasn't advocating democracy, however, 
but local control.  I maintain that this is a difference between a remote 
dictator whom you'll never talk to, vs. a local dictator whom you interact 
with daily.  I'd rather have the local dictator.

> I can't believe I'm taking a stand for Python. Put it down to loving a
> good discussion anytime.

Wow, that's almost admirable.  I was just being an onry cuss.

--- SER




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