From: Emiliano <emile@...>
Date: 2001-10-24T07:58:21+09:00
Subject: [ruby-talk:23117] Re: Bruce Eckel's opinion of Ruby

Robert Feldt wrote:

> When I "took on" Eckel's comments some notes were (this is long and rather
> boring, you might want to skip it):
> 
> "Also note that I've looked at a fair number of languages, and learned
> some of them in depth, so I like to think I know what I'm looking for). "
> 
> Fair enough, but he is probably also aware of the fact that he is
> influential. So it is not only about what he wants but partly also about
> "what an OO developer in general" wants and if he fails to act from such
> understanding of his influence he is taking part in some kind of
> We-better-than-you-simply-because game. Unless his comments are truly
> objective.

OK, point taken.

> "IMO, the Ruby syntax is worse and often annoying to me, based on my
> knowledge of other languages and especially Python."
> 
> Ok, not for me.
> 
> From this I learn that if you come to Ruby (or antoher language) from a
> similar language with a different syntax you might not like what you
> see. Probably because you have to translate into the mental model based on
> concepts from your original comments. Not sure how general this is or if
> its what is really happening here. But it might be worse the closer the
> languages are.

The odd thing is, I "come from" Perl. I find Ruby to be usuable as
long as all the things I routinely use in Perl are skipped. Could be
because I use perl for 'quickies', and the code tends to show it. I
use more OO languages for other types of projects.

> "Ruby requires more typing for no particular reason, "
> 
> This can be tested and I doubt that it is true. From the little Python
> experience I have I think it is the other way around. Ok, we have more
> "end" stuff but they have "self" etc.

*shrug* Unless we're talking about Ada I don't think that saving a few
keystrokes is the right argument to choose a language and the
environment around it.

> "and has an uninspired choice of syntax in many cases "
> 
> I don't understand what he means. Someone with Eckel-like programming
> experience (ie. long and with many languages) do?

I know C++ and Java, which I know Bruce is well versed in. I don't
think one should compare C++ with Ruby. They're too different. While I
can't speak for Bruce I can understand when, coming from a Java
background, this:
   query("show fields from #{table}").sort.each {|x| ret << x[0]}
is a bit much to swallow.

> My feeling is that there are quite a few experienced programmers coming to
> Ruby but I may be wrong. I doubt Matz have conssciously ripped off Python.

And even if he did, no big deal. Such is open source.

Emile