[#227503] open-uril ECONNREFUSED problem — Cyrus Ghalambor <cyrusg@...>

I'm working on a simple scraping tool and the open() method has suddenly

12 messages 2006/12/01

[#227527] Gateway is malfunctioning — "Trans" <transfire@...>

Someone recently mentioned missing posts. I just did a comparsion of

31 messages 2006/12/01

[#227574] Turtle Graphics (#104) — Ruby Quiz <james@...>

The three rules of Ruby Quiz:

37 messages 2006/12/01
[#227598] Re: [QUIZ] Turtle Graphics (#104) — "Harold Hausman" <hhausman@...> 2006/12/01

On 12/1/06, Ruby Quiz <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:

[#227606] Re: [QUIZ] Turtle Graphics (#104) — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2006/12/01

On Dec 1, 2006, at 9:42 AM, Harold Hausman wrote:

[#227620] Re: [QUIZ] Turtle Graphics (#104) — "Harold Hausman" <hhausman@...> 2006/12/01

On 12/2/06, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:

[#227661] Re: [QUIZ] Turtle Graphics (#104) — Daniel Martin <martin@...> 2006/12/01

"Harold Hausman" <hhausman@gmail.com> writes:

[#227670] Re: [QUIZ] Turtle Graphics (#104) — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2006/12/01

On Dec 1, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Daniel Martin wrote:

[#227682] Re: tk.rb warning in Turtle Graphics (#104) — Edwin Fine <efine145-nospam01@...> 2006/12/02

/usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/tk.rb:1187: warning: instance variable

[#227713] Re: tk.rb warning in Turtle Graphics (#104) — Morton Goldberg <m_goldberg@...> 2006/12/02

On Dec 1, 2006, at 7:22 PM, Edwin Fine wrote:

[#227630] Simple iteration in a function problem — Blake Miller <blakeage@...>

i'm trying to do this, and I'm stuck

34 messages 2006/12/01

[#227702] calculations on lists of numbers — ara.t.howard@...

38 messages 2006/12/02

[#227739] openssl error - ubuntu — "Chad" <carimura@...>

Help!

27 messages 2006/12/02
[#227741] Re: openssl error - ubuntu — Jose francisco Gonzalez carmona <pgonzalez@...> 2006/12/02

[#227787] Re: openssl error - ubuntu — "Chad" <carimura@...> 2006/12/02

Absolutely... I'm not a linux expert though, but I have a feeling

[#227822] Re: openssl error - ubuntu — "Chad" <carimura@...> 2006/12/02

I finally figured it out.

[#305614] Re: openssl error - ubuntu — James George <james@...> 2008/06/19

Thanks a lot pal, it worked perfectly for me too. I had the same openssl

[#305645] Re: openssl error - ubuntu — Marc Heiler <shevegen@...> 2008/06/19

So much for distribution's package managers making your life easier,

[#227801] comma separating output from array.to_s — "jansenh" <henning.jansen@...>

hi comp.lang.ruby

18 messages 2006/12/02

[#227819] Factory pattern, abstract base class — "Daniel Berger" <djberg96@...>

Hi all,

16 messages 2006/12/02

[#227839] Why does a test fail when I predicted it's exception class? — "Richard" <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...>

Hi,

10 messages 2006/12/03

[#227857] File.size() returning negative for large files ???? — "Greg Hauptmann" <greg.hauptmann.ruby@...>

Hi,

13 messages 2006/12/03
[#227859] Re: File.size() returning negative for large files ???? — Damjan Rems <d_rems@...> 2006/12/03

Greg Hauptmann wrote:

[#227860] I'm a new member — "Quỳnh Trần" <quynh_khanh2002@...>

Hi evrybody!

16 messages 2006/12/03

[#227873] Simple and stuppid bug (can anyone find it?) — "paul" <pjvleeuwen@...>

Hi all,

13 messages 2006/12/03

[#227979] method overloading like Java? — Daniel Finnie <danfinnie@...>

In Java, you could write the following code:

12 messages 2006/12/04

[#228031] Question about Ruby philosophy — Zouplaz <user@...>

Hello, when I compare Ruby to Java there is something I don't understand .

46 messages 2006/12/04
[#228134] Re: Question about Ruby philosophy — "Max Muermann" <ruby@...> 2006/12/05

On 12/4/06, Zouplaz <user@domain.invalid> wrote:

[#228047] replace delimiter in unicode encdoded file — "ciapecki" <ciapecki@...>

Is there a way in ruby to:

20 messages 2006/12/04

[#228127] How do I catch a missing method on a passed block? — "J2M" <james2mccarthy@...>

I would like to invoke method_missing on baz in this code;

34 messages 2006/12/04
[#228211] Re: How do I catch a missing method on a passed block? — Daniel Schierbeck <daniel.schierbeck@...> 2006/12/05

On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 08:04 +0900, J2M wrote:

[#228213] Re: How do I catch a missing method on a passed block? — Logan Capaldo <logancapaldo@...> 2006/12/05

On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 11:54:06PM +0900, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:

[#228266] md5 function in Ruby — Denys Yakhnenko <dyakhnenko@...>

Hello all:

14 messages 2006/12/05

[#228273] Lisp comprehensions => SQL — "Victor \"Zverok\" Shepelev" <vshepelev@...>

Hi all.

24 messages 2006/12/05

[#228352] Newbie: working with a text file and converting to xml — Adam Teale <ateale@...>

hi Guys,

12 messages 2006/12/06

[#228379] Calling super in overwritten methods — Joerg Diekmann <joergd@...>

Hi - not sure if this is possible - but it feels like it could be with

12 messages 2006/12/06

[#228380] join_with — "Martin DeMello" <martindemello@...>

While golfing with the hex_ip thread, I realised that map takes no

33 messages 2006/12/06
[#229469] map taking an argument (was: Re: join_with) — dblack@... 2006/12/13

Hi --

[#228422] invasive parameters as method mode variables — "Trans" <transfire@...>

Working on a method where I would like one part of it's operations to

15 messages 2006/12/06

[#228605] Show your support for Rubinius! — "Sam Smoot" <ssmoot@...>

(I hope you don't mind a bit of cross-posting, but seeing as how the

17 messages 2006/12/07
[#228613] Re: Show your support for Rubinius! — "Tim Pease" <tim.pease@...> 2006/12/07

On 12/7/06, Sam Smoot <ssmoot@gmail.com> wrote:

[#228618] Re: Show your support for Rubinius! — "Brian Mitchell" <binary42@...> 2006/12/07

On 12/7/06, Tim Pease <tim.pease@gmail.com> wrote:

[#228620] Re: Show your support for Rubinius! — "Wilson Bilkovich" <wilsonb@...> 2006/12/07

On 12/7/06, Brian Mitchell <binary42@gmail.com> wrote:

[#228622] Re: Show your support for Rubinius! — benjohn@... 2006/12/07

I'd like to know more about Rubinius, but all the info I've got on it

[#228628] Array changing after concat function — WKC CCC <wai-kee.chung@...>

Can someone shed some light on this problem. In the example, I am

17 messages 2006/12/07

[#228716] Am I missing something about BER-compressed integer? — "Francis Cianfrocca" <garbagecat10@...>

All:

12 messages 2006/12/08

[#228738] Tournament Matchups (#105) — Ruby Quiz <james@...>

The three rules of Ruby Quiz:

23 messages 2006/12/08

[#228875] Ruby Core + Php FrontEnd (open) — Flaab Mrlinux <flaab_mrlinux@...>

Good afternoon everyone.

13 messages 2006/12/09

[#228945] format problem — chen li <chen_li3@...>

Hi all,

23 messages 2006/12/10

[#229119] else inside rescue is useless? — "cap" <capitain@...>

http://www.awprofessional.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0672328844&rl=1

20 messages 2006/12/11

[#229122] Newbie questions — Dav Jones <kakaze@...21.com>

Hello, I'm quite new to this whole Ruby malarky and I'm having some real

15 messages 2006/12/11

[#229244] Re: Ruby for Kids? — "Jeff_M" <JeffMcGrath@...>

18 messages 2006/12/12

[#229350] C => Ruby plus TCP serialization using Marshal.dump/load — "Nathan Baker" <nathanb@...>

Hey,

12 messages 2006/12/12

[#229351] - Bible 1.0.1 - A bible reference parsing and text retrieval tool — "Justin Bailey" <jgbailey@...>

All,

13 messages 2006/12/12

[#229397] Restricted capture in Regexp — benjohn@...

Is there a regexp feature that lets me require something to be present

16 messages 2006/12/13

[#229398] How to improve my Ruby skills ? — Zouplaz <user@...>

Hello there... Like many others I've discovered Ruby when I started

11 messages 2006/12/13

[#229467] Net::Ldap question — Eduardo Y瘻ez Parareda <eduardo.yanezNOSPAM@...>

Hello, I'm trying this plugin in a rails app and think I need some help.

13 messages 2006/12/13
[#229486] Re: Net::Ldap question — Eduardo Y瘻ez Parareda <eduardo.yanezNOSPAM@...> 2006/12/13

Hehe, sorry again. I've reading documentation of this library and already know

[#229514] Re: Net::Ldap question — "Francis Cianfrocca" <garbagecat10@...> 2006/12/13

On 12/13/06, Eduardo Y瘻ez Parareda <eduardo.yanezNOSPAM@nospamgmail.com> wrote:

[#229511] Random idea - private, blocks, constants — "Daniel Berger" <djberg96@...>

Hi all,

14 messages 2006/12/13

[#229598] CTI Corporativo auto responses — "Daniel Berger" <djberg96@...>

All,

14 messages 2006/12/14

[#229600] Swap contents in two files — Christopher Latif <christopherl@...>

I have two files, I want to swap the contents of the files in my

17 messages 2006/12/14

[#229763] Chess960 (#106) — Ruby Quiz <james@...>

The three rules of Ruby Quiz:

33 messages 2006/12/15

[#229883] ZenTest autotest problems — Zouplaz <user@...>

Hello, I have big troubles using the latest autotest version (3.4.2)

11 messages 2006/12/16
[#229985] Re: ZenTest autotest problems — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2006/12/17

On Dec 16, 2006, at 01:40, Zouplaz wrote:

[#229990] Re: ZenTest autotest problems — Zouplaz <user@...> 2006/12/17

le 17/12/2006 07:43, Eric Hodel nous a dit:

[#230118] Re: ZenTest autotest problems — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2006/12/18

On Dec 17, 2006, at 24:55, Zouplaz wrote:

[#229906] Just some Ruby language ideas, comments wanted. — Daniel Finnie <danfinnie@...>

My first Ruby language idea is simple. Instead of having every method

13 messages 2006/12/16

[#229917] does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — "Ken Laninga" <personal@...>

I just heard about Ruby and it looks fascinating. I see lots of code being

60 messages 2006/12/16
[#229922] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — David Vallner <david@...> 2006/12/16

Ken Laninga wrote:

[#229939] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...> 2006/12/16

David Vallner wrote:

[#229961] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — Suraj Kurapati <snk@...> 2006/12/17

Joel VanderWerf wrote:

[#229967] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — "Richard" <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...> 2006/12/17

[#229968] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — David Vallner <david@...> 2006/12/17

Richard wrote:

[#229973] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — "Richard" <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...> 2006/12/17

[#230007] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — David Vallner <david@...> 2006/12/17

Richard wrote:

[#230065] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — "Richard" <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...> 2006/12/17

> Odds are it Just Won't unless you only

[#230073] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — David Vallner <david@...> 2006/12/17

Richard wrote:

[#230127] Re: does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes? — "Richard" <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...> 2006/12/18

Disclaimer: All my assertions about Ruby, Rails, WEBrick and MySQL are

[#230008] Grabbing data off a webpage — Bil Kleb <Bil.Kleb@...>

OK, so I haven't done this in years.

12 messages 2006/12/17

[#230011] Ruby IDE — <adaworks@...>

I am new to Ruby, but I have used a lot of other

24 messages 2006/12/17

[#230089] Question regarding threads and I/O — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@...>

I am a veteran programmer but still am trying to learn Ruby. In the

14 messages 2006/12/17
[#230094] Re: Question regarding threads and I/O — Logan Capaldo <logancapaldo@...> 2006/12/18

On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 08:55:10AM +0900, Michael W. Ryder wrote:

[#230147] Problem installing Ruby/Tk — Christopher Latif <christopherl@...>

Installed Linux

14 messages 2006/12/18

[#230256] where have all the experienced users gone? — "Trans" <transfire@...>

seems like there's been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on

63 messages 2006/12/19
[#230284] Re: [OT] where have all the experienced users gone? — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2006/12/19

On Dec 18, 2006, at 18:50, Trans wrote:

[#230327] Re: [OT] where have all the experienced users gone? — Jeremy Wells <jwells@...> 2006/12/19

Eric Hodel wrote:

[#230332] Re: [OT] where have all the experienced users gone? — "Robert Dober" <robert.dober@...> 2006/12/19

On 12/19/06, Jeremy Wells <jwells@servalsystems.co.uk> wrote:

[#230350] Re: [OT] where have all the experienced users gone? — "Jeremy McAnally" <jeremymcanally@...> 2006/12/19

I think it's also important that we all realize that we use mailing

[#230423] Re: [OT] where have all the experienced users gone? — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2006/12/19

On Dec 19, 2006, at 7:52 AM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:

[#230322] Re: where have all the experienced users gone? — "Robert Dober" <robert.dober@...> 2006/12/19

On 12/19/06, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#230507] Re: where have all the experienced users gone? — "Simon Strandgaard" <neoneye@...> 2006/12/20

On 12/19/06, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

[#230514] Re: where have all the experienced users gone? — "Robert Dober" <robert.dober@...> 2006/12/20

On 12/20/06, Simon Strandgaard <neoneye@gmail.com> wrote:

[#230295] string of strings... — Josselin <josselin@...>

I got an array of id's :

13 messages 2006/12/19

[#230328] compare two objects without take its ID in consideration — Lobosque Lucas <floyd_u2@...>

Is there a way to compare two objects without take its ID in

17 messages 2006/12/19

[#230450] ruby gotchas — Mark Guzman <segfault@...>

I've written up some ruby gotchas that have come up while using ruby.

16 messages 2006/12/19

[#230548] tricky sort for happy visitors of Paris — Josselin <josselin@...>

all happy visitors of Paris know about the 'arrondissement', an

20 messages 2006/12/20

[#230588] openssl on Red Hat not installed — Hueen Hueen <hueen@...>

So I'm one of the unlucky ones that don't have openssl properly

17 messages 2006/12/20

[#230602] Regexp Question: Checking for [joe][/joe] pairs — Joe Peck <joe@...>

Hey, I've got some text in @x and want there to be at least 1 and at

21 messages 2006/12/20

[#230648] Who's maintaining log4r? — jeffz_2002@...

Does anyone know who's maintaining the log4r project? The website at

29 messages 2006/12/20

[#230650] Searching Stings with Arrays? — Phil Cooperking <phil@...>

Hi, I've been having a little problem with this. most of my ruby is from

14 messages 2006/12/20

[#230755] Remove Ruby 1.8.5? — Christopher Latif <christopherl@...>

How do I remove Ruby 1.8.5 from linux? I have built it from source.

20 messages 2006/12/21
[#230874] Re: Remove Ruby 1.8.5? — David Vallner <david@...> 2006/12/21

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

[#230879] Re: Remove Ruby 1.8.5? — Vincent Fourmond <vincent.fourmond@9online.fr> 2006/12/21

David Vallner wrote:

[#230792] Method named ***(other) — Julien Gaugaz <gaugaz@...3s.de>

Hi!

15 messages 2006/12/21
[#230799] Re: Method named ***(other) — "Vidar Hokstad" <vidar.hokstad@...> 2006/12/21

[#230829] Ruby's Trac Alternative — Bil Kleb <Bil.Kleb@...>

So I'm trying to use Trac for our FUN3D development,

27 messages 2006/12/21

[#230853] External Ruby Script in HTML — Naked Sushi <runfaster@...>

This probably has a simple answer, but I don't know it.

17 messages 2006/12/21

[#230869] Ruby replacement for ab? — Mat Schaffer <schapht@...>

So I've been hunting for a way to stress test a web application and

17 messages 2006/12/21

[#230983] Merry (slightly early) Christmas! Mr. Neighborly's Humble Little Ruby Book is free! — "Jeremy McAnally" <jeremymcanally@...>

Hello all,

15 messages 2006/12/22

[#231056] Question: Downloading files with open(-uri)? — Mariano Kamp <mariano.kamp@...>

Hi,

16 messages 2006/12/23

[#231072] Help with a ruby idiom — Tim Waters <timgwaters@...>

From the O'Reilly Cookbook there is code that keeps call functions in a

16 messages 2006/12/23

[#231181] Hpricot ri and rdoc documentation — "bbiker" <renard@...>

I have gem installed Hpricot-0.4 (mswin32) but no ri documentation or

15 messages 2006/12/24

[#231198] A problem about replacing a string in a template. — Kuang Dong <kuangdong@...>

File 1: test.tpl

13 messages 2006/12/25

[#231277] Newby - how to round up floating point number? — Dermot Moynihan <der_moyn@...>

Hi guys

14 messages 2006/12/26

[#231303] Hash with two identical keys? — "Trans" <transfire@...>

>From Facets' multiton.rb (which is primarily Floran Franks' work), I'm

15 messages 2006/12/26

[#231341] Peculiar Behavior for a Newby to Undertstand — Charles A Gray <smgspices@...>

I created a class for prime numbers as so:

14 messages 2006/12/27

[#231377] How to do TDD in Ruby? — mekondelta <Chris.Melikian@...>

15 messages 2006/12/27

[#231385] newbie with a weird technical problem (@ least I think it's weird) — "will" <will.graduate@...>

Yep, as the post title implies, I'm a newbie. Being a pragmatic newbie

10 messages 2006/12/27

[#231436] Handling of arbitrary length arrays in arguments to printf builtin — Nick Pavey <nick@...>

Hi Folks,

13 messages 2006/12/27
[#231437] Re: Handling of arbitrary length arrays in arguments to printf builtin — Timothy Hunter <TimHunter@...> 2006/12/27

Nick Pavey wrote:

[#231462] Higher-Order Procedures Tutorial (long) — "Nate Murray" <jashmenn@...>

Hey Guys,

16 messages 2006/12/28

[#231494] Strip is not stripping trailing whitespace — Taylor Strait <taylorstrait@...>

I have files with city names which have one or two trailing whitespaces:

14 messages 2006/12/28

[#231595] What we have here is a retard pretending to be a computer scientist — atbusbook@...

http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Papers/Scha04bOOEncapsulation.pdf

14 messages 2006/12/29
[#231602] Paper on strong Object Oriented Encapsulation (Was: some subject with needless insults) — Eric Hodel <drbrain@...7.net> 2006/12/29

On Dec 28, 2006, at 16:05, atbusbook@aol.com wrote:

[#231610] Re: Paper on strong Object Oriented Encapsulation (Was: some subject with needless insults) — "Jeff" <cohen.jeff@...> 2006/12/29

Eric Hodel wrote:

[#231686] how to properly format data when using TCPSocket.send() — Nathan Taylor <onebitcipher@...>

It would be greatly appreciated if someone would clue me in to what I am

12 messages 2006/12/29

[#231726] Methods validating their arguments: good or bad? — Michael Judge <mjudge@...>

15 messages 2006/12/29

[#231763] how to lex javascript for an assert_js system? — Phlip <phlip2005@...>

Ruboids:

14 messages 2006/12/30

[#231785] Proposal to create a new mailing list — Daniel Schierbeck <daniel.schierbeck@...>

Hello fellow Rubyphilics!

31 messages 2006/12/30

[#231801] Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...>

I was a bit surprised about Matz mention of the little things in his

164 messages 2006/12/30
[#231848] Re: Little Things — Daniel Schierbeck <daniel.schierbeck@...> 2006/12/30

I mostly agree, with some of the additions of course being more

[#231882] Re: Little Things — dblack@... 2006/12/31

Hi --

[#231888] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2006/12/31

[#231893] Re: Little Things — Devin Mullins <twifkak@...> 2006/12/31

Trans wrote:

[#231898] Re: Little Things — "Rob Sanheim" <rsanheim@...> 2006/12/31

On 12/31/06, Devin Mullins <twifkak@comcast.net> wrote:

[#232438] Re: Little Things — Paulo Kh <paulo.koch@...> 2007/01/03

On 2006/12/31, at 07:38, Rob Sanheim wrote:

[#232439] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/03

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, [ISO-8859-1] Paulo Kh wrote:

[#232449] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/03

[#232451] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/03

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Trans wrote:

[#232496] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232501] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Trans wrote:

[#232502] Re: Little Things — dblack@... 2007/01/04

Hi --

[#232503] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 dblack@wobblini.net wrote:

[#232544] Re: Little Things — Devin Mullins <twifkak@...> 2007/01/04

ara.t.howard@noaa.gov wrote:

[#232547] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232571] Re: Little Things — Devin Mullins <twifkak@...> 2007/01/04

Trans wrote:

[#232587] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232602] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Trans wrote:

[#232615] Re: Little Things — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232616] Re: Little Things — dblack@... 2007/01/04

Hi --

[#232619] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 dblack@wobblini.net wrote:

[#232626] Re: Little Things — dblack@... 2007/01/04

Hi --

[#232631] Re: Little Things — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 dblack@wobblini.net wrote:

[#232638] Re: Little Things — "Chris Carter" <cdcarter@...> 2007/01/04

On 1/4/07, ara.t.howard@noaa.gov <ara.t.howard@noaa.gov> wrote:

[#232650] Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232652] Re: Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Trans wrote:

[#232653] Re: Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — "Tim Pease" <tim.pease@...> 2007/01/04

On 1/4/07, ara.t.howard@noaa.gov <ara.t.howard@noaa.gov> wrote:

[#232656] Re: Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Tim Pease wrote:

[#232657] Re: Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — "Trans" <transfire@...> 2007/01/04

[#232659] Re: Pervasive Methods [was: Little Things] — ara.t.howard@... 2007/01/04

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Trans wrote:

[#231932] Re: Little Things — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2006/12/31

Hi,

[#231821] Newbie: It works, how can I make it better? — Jay Bornhoft <jbornhoft@...>

I wrote this little prog giving the user two choices.

13 messages 2006/12/30

[#231938] Re: Status of Cardinal (was Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list) — "Francis Cianfrocca" <garbagecat10@...>

I'm not jumping back into this in a big way, since it's obvious

11 messages 2006/12/31

[#231941] Mini-RCR: Extra Argument for Array#join — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

I've been looking at the to_sentence() method in Rails. It's

17 messages 2006/12/31

[#231946] Open source credit card processing in ruby — snacktime <snacktime@...>

Just recently I have the option to open source a credit card

12 messages 2006/12/31
[#231956] Re: Open source credit card processing in ruby — "Francis Cianfrocca" <garbagecat10@...> 2006/12/31

On 12/31/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky <znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:

[#231951] Re: Status of Cardinal (was Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list) — Charles Oliver Nutter <charles.nutter@...>

Robert Dober wrote:

9 messages 2006/12/31

Re: [RANT] does Ruby generate WINDOWS and dialog boxes?

From: David Vallner <david@...>
Date: 2006-12-17 03:56:08 UTC
List: ruby-talk #229969
Suraj Kurapati wrote:
> I don't know why people hate it so much. They seem to prefer "desktop=20
> integration" and eye-candy instead of clean, functional interfaces.=20
> Sigh. :-(
>=20

Some of us have to "sell" software, at least to managers - then it matter=
s.

[Hide the women, children and livestock. This just got bloody as I
predicted.]

Also, you're missing the point. It's a GUI, noone really gives a damn if
the programmer had an easier time coding it if there's hundreds of users
that will feel constantly alienated by it because of some detail the
programmer didn't feel like bothering with.

User interface design isn't the same as programming a user interface.
Programmers, especially the lazy sort, tend to suck, suck-oh-so-horribly
at user interface design. Approaching user interface design with a
programmer's mindset can only end in pain, tragedy, and Tk.

Also, you're confusing internal UI consistency, and external UI
consistency. Internal UI consistency is when the features of the UI fit
together to make working with the software alone productive (your clean
and functional).

External consistency is when the UI incorporates features that make
working with that software in connection with other software on the
computer productive. This means panels will scroll when the mouse is
over them and won't require clicking on the buttons. This means that the
file chooser, on XP, will have a "My Documents" button as the third one
in a button sidepanel on the left. (I can't describe the rage I feel
when a toolkit opens a file chooser that doesn't even try to look alike
and leaves me flailing about trying to find my way back home.) I've seen
Tk interfaces fail at all the above when they're capabilities the damn
system below them gets right out of the box, and I've no doubt that's
barely the tip of the iceberg.

Both internal and external consistency are, for pretty much most
applications, factors that contribute to productivity. Having an
externally consistent program in no way excludes it being internally
consistent, so no point in setting up that straw man.

Any GUI toolkit will let you achieve internal consistency, and getting
really good usability from a GUI is 1% toolkit choice, 99% blood and
sweat. (My favourite GUI programs in terms of UI usability, and
consequently the ones I use most are firstly Opera, written in nothing
publically known for Windows, Qt3 for Linux, and IntelliJ IDEA, based on
the by-default-horrid Swing it makes sing and dance.) However, the
mindset of most Tk users seems to be to fight achieving external
consistency kicking and screaming and inventing nonarguments to prove
such patent nonsense as external consistence being undesirable. (That's
usually laziness, youthful zealotry, incompetence, or short time budget
speaking. Prove me wrong.)

Also, to set you right. People, or at least I (the only part of "people"
I can confidently speak for - for what part were you speaking and with
how much confidence when you used the words "people" and "they" again? -
obviously not yourself), don't just prefer eye candy. I want usable
interfaces that do what I need, do what I want, and do even what I
didn't know I wanted, and pay close attention now, that *also* look
good, look native-or-better (Java 6 giving me subpixel font AA on
Windows 2000 machines at work or under uncooperative Linux window
managers), act native-or-better (cf. some Windows programs that emulate
"scroll widget under cursor"). Both. And. No. Less. I am willing to and
have paid money to get that, and when forced to make a choice, there
will be something pissing me off with either alternative making me
wrestle lossage of some sort.

(PS: Just writing desktop integration in quotes doesn't make it of no
value. Refer to the missing the point by leagues bit above.)

Oh, and to make my position fully clear, I do hate Tk as a programmer
too. I find Qt linearly superior because of the object-oriented design,
MVC support, and the mixin architecture for separating UI and controller
logic, and QMetaObject::connectSlotsByName very reliably killing event
handler wireup boilerplate. And who really cares how you lay out the
widgets when there's Designer (the form designer that made me stop
hating form designers) to do that. Oh, and even with those features,
it's probably faster than Tk.

Tk isn't hardly the Ruby of GUI toolkits, with the massive advocating of
/ tolerance to mediocrity of results, it's the PHP of GUI toolkits.

David Vallner
No Way Someone Reads This Whole

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