From: dblack@...
Date: 2006-12-15T07:22:52+09:00
Subject: Re: FYI - Ruby related article/blog on Reddit front page

Hi --

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006, Jason Roelofs wrote:

> I guess I should have expounded on my use of the word
> "professional".  Everything you say, Dave, is right, but we are
> forgetting the even larger

s/Dave/David/ :-)

> community that decrys Ruby as too slow and a "hobbyist language,"
> that is "not fit for enterprise (*shudder*) use".

But what's the opposite of forgetting them?  Not, I think, having Ruby
dance to their tune.  Ignoring them, perhaps? :-)

Ruby, by the way, is a great hobbyist language.  At least I found it
so, in the years I was using it before programming shifted from being
a hobby (admitted a rather consuming one) to being a professional
pursuit for me.  But I know what you mean: people mean the term as an
insult.

> I myself have use Ruby in a professional project, so I am not saying
> anything against that, but more of those people that I run into and
> deal with that just don't understand Ruby because it's too young and
> slow, usually comparing it to Perl.

Well, it's not Ruby's fault -- every language was 13 years old at some
point in its life :-)

I have to say, I've seen a lot of discussion over the years about how
to get people to use Ruby; but I don't know of a single case where
anything got anyone to try Ruby except Ruby.  I don't think anyone has
ever been convinced by a feature list, or benchmarks (well, definitely
not that :-) or anything other than the language itself.

And usually by the time people are saying publicly that they don't
like Ruby, they've seen at least as much of Ruby as I had when I
decided it was my dream language.  So they probably really don't like
Ruby.

> Also, the issue that it's something else that needs to be installed has been
> a hindrance to the adoption of the language in larger companies, while Perl
> and Java are automatically installed on any server. This is why JRuby is
> such a great project (as most people have realized and hell is the basis of
> the project IIRC) and it will help put Ruby in a more "professional" light
> to the rest of IT.

I think this is changing, though the tendency to slice Ruby up into
packages is annoying since it makes installing it artificially
difficult and prolonged.

> I wasn't trying to say that Ruby is not to be used professionally yet; the
> language has definitely proved itself many times in such environments.
> However, to get more people (especially the Perl guys) to even try the
> language, these improvements need to be made. Then there will only be the "I
> like Perl better" argument, for which we can reply "Your loss."

I think a better reply is: "So, how 'bout those Mets?" :-)  It's
better to compare experiences than languages, I think.  It's like
musical instruments: mine doesn't have to be better than yours to be
more suited to me.


David

-- 
Q. What's a good holiday present for the serious Rails developer?
A. RUBY FOR RAILS by David A. Black (http://www.manning.com/black)
    aka The Ruby book for Rails developers!
Q. Where can I get Ruby/Rails on-site training, consulting, coaching?
A. Ruby Power and Light, LLC (http://www.rubypal.com)