From: David Vallner <david@...>
Date: 2006-10-30T10:27:14+09:00
Subject: Re: ruby's build system

--------------enigAA0CF57FBC687298060A471F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> David Vallner wrote:
>> Selfhosting is a nice exercise in brain self-surgery, but I think it's=

>> more practical to bootstrap using an external environment that's most
>> likely to be present. I'm not sure I'd like the ruby build process to
>> take too much time building a bloated miniruby just to build itself
>> again for no practical benefit whatsoever.
>>
>> David Vallner
>=20
> Yeah, but ... "an external environment that's most likely to be present=
"
> translates to "GNU/Linux/gcc", doesn't it? Which means MacOS and Window=
s
> lag. A bootstrap using an existing "Pure Ruby" (Ruby plus Rake plus
> RubyGems, etc.) makes a lot more sense.
>=20

Short of implementing a C compiler in Ruby (I give it a month or two
before someone announces a 0.0.1 version of that), those requirements
aren't going away - you still have to shell out to a C compiler, which
is by far where most build system porting problems lurk (compiler switch
semantics, different shell escaping, directory names with spaces innem.)

I guess the original poster's point was porting the build environment to
Ruby, which, while removing a dependency some people don't have (A POSIX
build environment), would introduce a dependency most people that want a
ruby interpreter don't have (a ruby interpreter).

You'd need -some- form or Ruby to bootstrap (a precompiled miniruby
perhaps), and if you're geek enough to want a self-built Ruby on
non-POSIX platforms (e.g. Windows), getting a POSIX environment can't be
that hard. (I trust you don't need any hints on that.)

Moving to rake instead of make might be of benefit though if it lets you
get rid of some spaces-in-pathnames woes. (Since you don't have a string
evaluated by a shell at umpty barely predictable spots, something for
which I'd like to stab people responsible for Unix shells into
vulnerable places with plastic forks many times.) But it's still not
going all away yet, e.g. the autotools remain. I just don't see a full
rewrite both coming anytime soon, and since I doubt one would be doable
without more or less a full Ruby install, I don't see much benefit as
opposed to just going as far as you can push the (presumably trivial to
build) miniruby.

David Vallner


--------------enigAA0CF57FBC687298060A471F
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFRVTsy6MhrS8astoRAmEEAJ4xo1euxygyPsdZpYUWzi6l2qTzeQCdEtza
XTZxPwo8gWdURnJQLddOyQM=
=Q6po
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--------------enigAA0CF57FBC687298060A471F--