From: Robert Dober Date: 2006-10-28T06:08:17+09:00 Subject: Re: How do I tell when I'm on Cygwin? ------=_Part_79664_32002071.1161983293912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/27/06, Austin Ziegler wrote: > > On 10/26/06, Robert Dober wrote: > > On 10/26/06, Austin Ziegler wrote: > > > On 10/26/06, Chris Lowis wrote: > > > > Austin Ziegler wrote: > > > > > (I don't know; I stopped using Cygwin as soon as I > > > > > found more useful tools that didn't require the whole bloody > > > > > framework). > > > > Slightly off-topic, but I'd be really interested to hear of your > > > > alternatives to Cygwin. Having to install the whole cygwin framework > is > > > > a pain, but I do like having ruby, irb, openssh, latex, and all the > > > > usual GNU tools available through a _bash_ shell on Windows. > > > The bash shell isn't necessary on Windows (not if you know how to use > > > the existing command shell well enough or you use something like Total > > > Commander, like I do). I don't use openssh on Windows, I use PuTTY. I > > > have most of the GNU tools that I need through GnuWin32. I use a > > > native TeX build. > > These are all very nice and honerable tools but I go with the folks who, > > like me, feel that is too much pain to learn too many tools, I love > bash, I > > need to learn zsh for professional reasons, and I have sooo many other > > interesting stuff I cannot even read about. > > I simply do not understand that. I *cannot* understand that. But it is simple, I use Windows because I do not have any choice, I use it at one sole machine, imposed by my company I administer about 100 machines in *X, I am lucky, but not as lucky as you, because you seem to have a completely raional approach to using Windows. I am a *very* emotional guy and I hate Windows and Cygwin is my therapy. I think that this is true for many others but I am not sure of course. It > essentially boils down to "I don't want to know anything about this > platform that I must use." 100% right I am equally comfortable in Unix and > Windows -- and the longtime Mac folks who were at RubyConf this past > weekend can tell you how quickly I've adapted to the Mac in just two > months (with some things that I have yet to find a comfortable > replacement for). When I had to use VMS, I made sure that I > *understood* it (even though I thought its command-line shell was > crap). The *only* time I do something different is when I install bash > on the four Unix-style platforms for which I develop if they don't > already have it. Why? Because I wrote my build drivers using bash > conventions. It'd be no different than if I'd written the build > drivers with Ruby (then I wouldn't care what shell people used). Now this is great for you, but assuming that this is a generally appliable approach, well I donnu. For myself, I try to chose what I learn, I was good in BS2000 e.g. but why should I bother with Windows if I am not interested in it, can you give me a single reason? > I guess Cygwin is better than you present it, especially if you can go for > a > > slim install. Now when it comes to X, I completely agree with your POV. > > It's not better, even with a slim install. (Although, the 1Gb my > Cygwin directory used to take up was nice to get back when I finally > got rid of it.) Cygwin is supposed to be a narrow solution, e.g., I > have to use Windows but I also *must* use this Unix software that has > not yet been ported to Windows (or cannot be ported to Windows or > won't be ported to Windows because the developers are asinine platform > bigots). There are very, very good reasons not to support Windows, especially on philosophical grounds. The nice adjective you have used seems to indicate that you know that. I feel that is kind of a strange assumption, very honestly, if it were true the discussion would be over of course. > But maybe the *real* discussion is about Windows, I use Cygwin to *forget > > that Window even exists* it is a therapy for me. > > That's the problem, then. I told you it was, it is *not* a complicated affair. If you want to forget Windows even exists > when you're using Windows, why the HELL are you using Windows in the > first place? If your workplace requires that you use Windows, then > install coLinux and be done with it. I try to keep my work sometimes I use a life distribution like Knoppix, I might even get into trouble by using Cygwin but I guess I can talk myself out of this. Otherwise, install Linux or > FreeBSD or something else on your machine and stop pretending you're > using Unix. Not an option If you can't stand working in the Windows cmd.exe, spend the money to > get TotalCommander or Directory Opus. Money? Now you seem to forget that I am happy with Cygwin, why should I buy a replacement? I personally prefer TC on > Windows, but others swear by DOpus. I am basically at the command-line > to run specific scripts which don't pause when finished. I rarely > navigate directories by the command-line (I will usually navigate with > TC and then run cmd.exe if I need a command window). Your quote ("The reasonable man adapts himself...") is somewhat apt. Leave good old GBS alone, now that I got his name right, will you ;) BTW I always underline that the logical conclusion from GBS' quote is that "the reasonable man cannot change the world", but not that "the unreasonable man will" this is like mutation, mutation is necessary for evolution and yet very very few mutations contribute to evolution. (in the simple model) However, you're not going to change Windows by being unreasonable on > Windows (e.g., expecting Unix behaviour to mesh well); What are you talking about, I would not change Windows, I would ignore it if I could, really does not make sense. others won't > change Linux by being unreasonable on Linux (e.g., running WINE). > Better to deal with things as they are if you must deal with an > operating system you do not prefer. But Cygwin is a reality not an illusion! By using it I deal with my Cygwin wrapper (hiding Windows, somehow) and believe me when my bash is the only one to see my pendrive when plugged in and our TechSupport cannot handle this, I think Cygwin is it's money worth [ yes that is a joke ]. -austin > -- > Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/ > * austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/ > * austin@zieglers.ca > > Cheers Robert -- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw ------=_Part_79664_32002071.1161983293912--