From: Austin Ziegler Date: 2006-10-28T01:09:44+09:00 Subject: Re: How do I tell when I'm on Cygwin? On 10/27/06, jameshcunningham@gmail.com wrote: > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, "Austin Ziegler" wrote: >> I am equally comfortable in Unix and Windows -- and the longtime Mac >> folks who were at RubyConf this past weekend can tell you how quickly >> I've adapted to the Mac in just two months (with some things that I >> have yet to find a comfortable replacement for). > Would you like a candy? A pat on the back? A "who cares - just because > you want to increase the amount of work you have to do by making your > platforms completely disparate, doesn't mean I have to?" I'm just baffled that people are so opposed to Windows conventions that they must install a poorly-matched emulation layer to make it feel usable. This isn't about "my company mandates two different incompatible things: that I run this Unix program that won't yet compile on Windows and that I run Windows." This is about "I'm going to install this because it's the way I want to work, and the company won't let me run Linux." This is very *much* about choosing to work in a way that's different than how the underlying platform works. What would Linux users do if they heard someone was using a DOS compatibility layer to do all their work, including a COMMAND.COM replacement. They'd mock them mercilessly. WINE is given a bit more a free pass, but I think it's no different: you use it if you *have* to, not because you *want* to. The Linux user's goal isn't to run Windows programs on Linux; it's to run Linux programs on Linux. It's just that some of the useful programs aren't native to Linux, and therefore they must have WINE. I don't know a single Linux user who would *choose* to use Windows Explorer on WINE as opposed to Konqueror or Nautilus. So what gives folks who want to use Cygwin a free pass? The *reality*, Mr Cunningham, is that your platforms *are* completely disparate. Using Cygwin to pretend that they aren't is lazy. My statements, by the way, weren't looking for pats on the back from asinine twits; they were merely statements that it is not only possible but *easy* to switch between various platforms without having to rely on crutches like Cygwin. This is why I simply cannot understand the laziness involved. >>> But maybe the *real* discussion is about Windows, I use Cygwin to >>> *forget that Window even exists* it is a therapy for me. >> That's the problem, then. If you want to forget Windows even exists >> when you're using Windows, why the HELL are you using Windows in the >> first place? If your workplace requires that you use Windows, then >> install coLinux and be done with it. > Yeah, because coLinux is a great, flawless alternative. Seriously: > what would someone gain by installing coLinux over Cygwin, if that > person wishes to develop for Windows? You get some speed, but Cygwin's > speed is more than sufficient for many tasks. If a person wants to develop for Windows, they should *never* use Cygwin to do that. It's that simple. Cygwin is not a viable alternative for software development on Windows. It never has been. It's a way to get Unix programs to run on Windows through a compatibility layer. Licensing issues with Cygwin make it a non-starter for pretty much anything else. And, honestly, it's not necessary. At work, I have a *lot* of Unix-style command-line tools installed through the GNUWin32 project, and I have mktex, too. It's a userland thing which is mostly nonsensical to run, and it's usually run by people who are too lazy to learn to do things in the native platform. > [snip] >> If you can't stand working in the Windows cmd.exe, spend the money to >> get TotalCommander or Directory Opus. I personally prefer TC on >> Windows, but others swear by DOpus. I am basically at the >> command-line to run specific scripts which don't pause when finished. >> I rarely navigate directories by the command-line (I will usually >> navigate with TC and then run cmd.exe if I need a command window). > I have yet to meet the graphical file manager that allows me to work > anywhere near as quickly and efficiently as I do in bash with Unix > utilities. What would I gain by shelling out cash for a program which > slows me down, other than some warm and happy feeling about using > completely native solutions? Obviously, you've never looked at the tools that I've mentioned. You wouldn't call them "graphical file managers" if you had. (Hint: they're rendered by the GUI, but then again, so is a modern console. Graphical file managers are very different than these two programs; graphical file managers tend to be mouse driven. Both DOpus and TC work with the mouse, but are *keyboard* driven.) >> Better to deal with things as they are if you must deal with an >> operating system you do not prefer. > Why? What exactly do you gain? The lack of an impedance mismatch. So what do you do when you go to a colleague's computer that doesn't have Cygwin installed? Do you force them to install it before you will even help them? I didn't think so. -austin -- Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/ * austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/ * austin@zieglers.ca