From: Joseph Date: 2006-09-04T03:40:33+09:00 Subject: Re: Joel Spolsky on languages for web programming Although I respect Joel very much, I believe he makes a fundamental mistake in his reasoning. Basically what he is saying can be deconstructed this way: * Do not risk developing in new cutting edge technology. Even if successful proof of concepts are already out there (37 signals et. al) * Use what most people use: PHP / J2EE / .Net not what most experts tell you to use. Communities and support are paramount. * Corporations and the people in those organizations favor safety, if your job is on the line go with the tried and true. Take no risks. All three assumptions rely on a single assumption: FEAR. * Fear the technology would eventually not deliver. * Fear the support will not be sufficient. * Fear regarding your job safety as a corporate developer or manager who chooses Ruby or Ruby on Rails for some mission critical project. All assumptions are wrong. The only way significant progress is accomplished is precisely a combination of: FAITH and COURAGE. That will make you stand out anywhere. The ideal place for those characteristics is inside a Startup or inside of a bold, courageous corporation! It is not about the size of the organization though, it is about the courage and boldness of the people inside those companies. People forget how the Internet, yes the OLD Internet was built. It was done on new technology (www, http, mosaic, Perl), new development models (open source, collaboration), new business objectives (community first, users, and yes finally profits too.) So, this is my take on this issue regarding Ruby and Ruby on Rails: Do it, risk it, it's worth it. And the biggest advantage to Joel's thinking for you would be that neither he, nor corporations who thing like he does (most of them) will be your competition. So when they do have some serious issues to tackle, like that huge Framework called [insert-your-safe-choice-here] trying to bent backwards to do what needs to be done fast... you will have the last laugh. Best Regards, Jose L. Hurtado Web Developer Toronto, Canada Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > Hi, > > In message "Re: Joel Spolsky on languages for web programming" > on Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:49:44 +0900, James Edward Gray II writes: > > |> That indicates that he trusts himself, and not me (Ruby). And I think > |> he's right. > | > |Really? I trust you a lot more than me, at least as far as designing > |languages goes. > > To rephrase, he has right to trust himself than me. I think I am a > better language designer than him. But at the same time, I think he > is a better programmer to create enterprisy software. > > |P.S. I've used Spolsky's software and read his books and it just so > |happens that I trust you more than him too. ;) > > I've read his book, but not used his software, so that I may not be > the right person to judge him. > > matz.