From: Anton 'tony' Bangratz <tony@...>
Date: 2006-06-13T06:26:13+09:00
Subject: Re: Ruby for Highschoolers?

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Christian Neukirchen wrote:
> Anton 'tony' Bangratz <tony@twincode.net> writes:
>=20
>> AFAIK, DrScheme or Smalltalk have a clear advantage there. Knowing onl=
y the
>> latter, I dare to simplify: the IDE is the VM is the IDE. Now, my pers=
onal
>> preference is still Ruby.
>=20
> Funny you mention Smalltalk.  I think it would make a great teaching
> language too.  It has an easy and logical, but well readable syntax, a
> graphical environment and it's great for teaching OO, of course.

I have to take your word for this (and that of a good friend, of
course). After installing squeak, I had a few troubles to get me
started, but that was probably because X.org is a means to hold a
multitude of xterms and three other applications to me. I'm too much
of a console guy, I fear.

> I could imagine these kids post endless stuff on their Livejournal or
> MySpace and write that directly into the browser... do you really
> think they care that much about editors?  Both DrScheme and Squeak
> provide convenient and appropriate ways of code editing.  (Though I
> have to admit that the main reason I don't use more Squeak is that I
> can't easily edit it in Emacs.)

The point-and-click interface is not so intuitive as I hoped, but I
could get used to it.

> Is irb that much better than an evaluation window?  Squeak is even
> more "live" than Ruby.
>=20

That's true. For me, irb is my 'sandbox', my testing area where I can
try ideas with a few keystrokes. In my experience, focussing on more
than one window or following instructions around "move the mouse
pointer over the orange tab with the word 'Navigation' on it and click
ONCE!" is taxing for most beginners. Typing a word, hitting 'Enter'
and seeing immediate reaction is more direct - in the beginning.

It's true that objects and messages can be more easily illustrated and
used in squeak. That's when the personal preferences hit, about syntax
and intuitive manipulation.

My other 'thing' is that I am using ruby for administrative tasks,
complex scripts and Rails. So it has a lot of real-world value and
provides me with a neverending source of useful examples.

Summary: I could not decide which to take if my life depended on it. I
think I'd try to show both, thus stressing the point that concepts are
more important than recipes.

t.

--=20
Anton Bangratz - Key ID 363474D1 - http://tony.twincode.net/
fortune(6):
Everybody gets free BORSCHT!


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