From: Alex Combas Date: 2006-03-30T05:27:42+09:00 Subject: Re: Ruby Black Belt I think the community could come up with something better and more interestingthan an online test but I do not think that "something" should berubyquiz.com, sorry James. rubyquiz.com is a really great source for gaining practical knowledgeif you already knowenough about programming and ruby in order to participate. The problem with rubyquiz is that there is no continuity, it starts off ata very high level, newbies have to search around looking for a simple startingexercise, probably picking the wrong one, getting frustrated, givingup, and then I lookfor a new exercise to try.. and I get frustrated again ..err.. I mean"newbies" getfrustrated again.. ahem.. anyway.. rubyquiz also isnt very "fun" in itself ..oh sure, if you find the actof programming itselfto be "fun" then ruby quiz is lots of fun, but then so is every otheract of programming. rubyquiz is only cool for two reasons: firstly because the problemsare well thought out, secondly because rubyists solutions are oftenenlightening. For that matter I think the name rubyquiz is misleading, it should berubyproblemsolving.comand its meta tag should include "advanced". The difference being that a quiz usually has a defined solution whichmust follow a defined pathand the challenge is to find that path in order to reach thatsolution. But of course rubyquiz.com isvery loose about how one can solve the problems and in my opinion thisis a bad way to learnbecause often newbies, if they manage to solve the problem at all,will have done so by poor meansand will have probably learned bad habits along the way as a result.The given solutionsto the problems at rubyquiz are often themselves high level, just likethe problems themselves,and so are equally difficult for newbies to learn from. I'm not saying that you will not learn by hacking away at those greatexercises, what I'm saying is that if you are a newb you will mostlikely teach yourself many bad habits along the way by trying to cutyour teeth on such complicated exercises IF you have not first gaineda solid foundation in programming. What we need (and I want) is something to fill the gap between apersons introductory book(s) on ruby (pickaxe, poignant,pine) and theexercises at rubyquiz.com. The books are necessary, you cant even begin until you have read oneor two of them, but to go from that to rubyquiz is quite a leap andmany I think are falling through the crack. We need some sort of linear rubygame that will enforce good habits andbasic compsci techniques so newbs can gain that solid ground in simpleproblem solving and have the tools to then go and tackle seriousproblems like those found at rubyquiz. *Fewf* sorry for all the oral spew..James dont take this as criticism for rubyquiz, I love what you'redoing for the community over there.I just dont think that its the "next step" to learning ruby that manyclaim it to be. Best regards,--Alex Combashttp://noodlejunkie.com/