From: Daniel Nugent <nugend@...>
Date: 2006-02-24T17:00:09+09:00
Subject: Re: Ruby as First Language

I think they should teach kids Lisp/Scheme, C, the Lambda Calculus,
and computer organization at the exact same time.

Then they'll grasp the differences between the theoretical computer
science, practical computer engineering, and the balance between the
two faced when programming.

A second course would then use Ruby or Smalltalk along with design
patterns as an introduction to Object Oriented programming/design and
being able to communicate about programs (that is, talk to other human
beings).

Then, I dunno, teach them declarational programming using SQL and
Prolog, explaining the relational theory and logic programming.

The ones that come out of it alive will be Masters of the Universe.

On 2/24/06, James Herdman <james.herdman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2006-02-23 13:55:44 -0500, "Glen" <glen_ap@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > James H. wrote:
> >> Doubly, it takes a long time to learn how
> >> to think in objects -- something I admit, myself, to just be getting
> >> the hang of.
> >
> > I think there are two flaws in your argument.
> >
> > 1) Your experience does not set the standard for everyone else.
>
> Of course =)
>
> > 2) I assume you started with a language similar to C (or at least
> > procedural), and then learned OO. Because it took you a long time to
> > fully grasp OO, you think it is best to start with a procedural
> > language. ?? Is there no possibility that it took you longer to grasp
> > OO *because* you started with a procedural language?
>
> There's quite a bit of merit to what you said, and it's quite possible.  And...
>
> > Alan Shalloway, one of the authors of "Design Patterns Explained"
> > argues that avoiding design patterns makes it harder to learn them
> > object-oriented design. Instead, he introduces his students to
> > object-oriented design *and* design patterns and has found the students
> > learn object-oriented design faster.
>
> As suggested by this statement, I *did* find OO easier to grasp and
> understand once I started learning design patterns.  I suppose I worry
> that if someone isn't taught OO well that they're just going to end up
> like me and program some sort of pseudo-OO crap and just end up
> enforcing bad habits.
>
> You're right, his experience is much more extensive than mine and I'd
> trust it more.  Just sharing my $0.02 though =)
>
> Kindly,
>
> James
>
>
>


--
-Dan Nugent