From: Jacob Fugal <lukfugl@...>
Date: 2006-02-04T02:29:34+09:00
Subject: Re: Golfing (was Re: Chomping and stomping)

On 2/3/06, William James <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jacob Fugal wrote:
> > Let me clarify.
> >
> >  * I don't mind you golfing on the list/newsgroup.
> >  * I don't mind you golfing about this task.
>
> What egregious arrogance!  Let me clarify.  What you mind
> doesn't matter.

I didn't say it did. I was just clarifying *my opinion*. When I asked
for no golfing in that thread, it was because in *my opinion* it was
off-topic for that thread. When you called me on the statement, I
thought I better clarify *my opinion*, hence I clarified while using
the pronoun "I". You can discard *my opinion* and I don't care. Don't
call me arrogant, however, for responding to a personal query with a
clarification of *my opinion*.

> > What I do mind is threads that were not intended as golfing threads
> > being hijacked into a golf contest.
>
> I'm a wicked hijacker.  I know I am because Mr. Fugal told me so.

I never used the word wicked; please don't put words in my mouth.
Hijacking a newgroup thread is not evil, wicked or in any way morally
wrong.

> >                                 If I were the OP and posted a
> > question, then later saw a new post in the thread stemming from that
> > question, I'd expect useful input or discussion regarding my question.
> > I am especially touchy about this when golfing replies are posted in
> > response to a newbie question. While golf can be fun, we don't want
> > the newbie to get the wrong idea that the techniques used in the golf
> > are representative of how the code *should* be written.
>
> If you didn't want to mislead the newbie, why did you say:
> 'String#chomp! is a "destructive" operation. This means that it acts in
> place on its receiver and, in this case, returns nil.'

Because I made a mistake. I'm glad that someone caught the mistake and
brought it to light. I have learned from it.

> If you didn't want to mislead the newbie, why did you post this:
>
> def chomper
>     xx = gets.chomp
>     until xx == "qq"
>       puts "hit me with a squirell!"
>       xx
>     end
> end
>
> puts chomper
>
> Even if there was a way for the loop to terminate, xx would not
> be returned.  It has to be moved outside of the loop.
> Extremely misleading.  Extremely confusing to a newbie.

Because I was focusing on the difference between chomp and chomp!,
about which I was mistake anyways. If you compare that code against
Johns original example you'll find one difference in one character:
the removal of the !. I made that one change because I believed,
mistakenly, that the difference between chomp and chomp! is what was
breaking my code. After jumping to that premature and mistaken
conclusion, I didn't take the time to proof the rest of his method. I
apologize for any confusion that may have caused.

> And it was extremely arrogant to post untested
> code.

No, it wasn't. It was lazy, yes. It was a mistake, yes. But not arrogant.

> Furthermore, it was extremely rude as well as incredibly arrogant
> to assert falsely that my code wouldn't work correctly when
> you had not condescended to test it.

Again, that was based on my incorrect assumption about chomp! always
returning nil. I made a mistake. I apologize. I was not trying to be
rude, just helpful.

> Much better than the above code is:
>
> def chomper
>   puts "Hit me!"  while gets.chomp! != "qq"
>   $_
> end
>
> It is superior in three ways.
> 1. It is correct.
> 2. It is clearer.
> 3. It is shorter.

I would argue point 2, but only due to personal taste. I concede points 1 and 3.

> Naturally, Mr. Fugal's arrogance compels him to dismiss
> my version by using the term "golf", hoping that you will
> assume that "golf" is a Bad Thing.

I did not dismiss your version because I thought it was golf. I
dismissed it because I thought, mistakenly, that is was incorrect. For
that I apologize.

Nor have I said golf is a Bad Thing; witness my clarification to which
you have responded.

> Newbies, don't be afraid of $_.  Matz didn't include it in Ruby
> in order to tempt the unwary into becoming "evil golfers".
> He included it because it is useful.  Of course, Mr. Fugal's
> arrogance leads him to believe that his opinion outweighs
> Matz's.

I never said golfing was evil. I never said or implied that Matz made
a mistake by including $_. I never said or implied that $_ is not
useful. And I definitely never said or implied that my opinion
outweighs that of Matz. Please do not attribute views to me that I do
not hold.

I discouraged the use of $_ because I believe it to be less readable
than using a named variable. Indeed, John's original post asked for a
way to incorporate a variable into his solution in place of the $_.

Jacob Fugal